Trident FAQ

[Reefer525XL]

Ok for those wanting an upgrade path here you go.

Step #1
Sell your classic apex for $350 (more if you can). After PayPal fees and shipping you'll be left with $300.

Step #2
Put the $300 towards the purchased of the 2016 Apex. New Apex will cost you $500

The 2016 Apex brain sells for over $450 in the UK, if ever sells here I doubt it will be any less than that. I could be wrong though but the chances are slim.

I believe the classic brain sold for $250 if Im not mistaken? This new brain has more HP under the hood , built in WiFi and Conductivity so I don't see it being sold for less than $300 and thats a low estimate.

There is your upgrade path, now stop the whining and lets act like adults. I don't see people complaining about upgrading phones and paying $800 each time they upgrade.

 

[frenchie01]

Ok for those wanting an upgrade path here you go.

Step #1
Sell your classic apex for $350 (more if you can). After PayPal fees and shipping you'll be left with $300.

Step #2
Put the $300 towards the purchased of the 2016 Apex. New Apex will cost you $500

The 2016 Apex brain sells for over $450 in the UK, if ever sells here I doubt it will be any less than that. I could be wrong though but the chances are slim.

I believe the classic brain sold for $250 if Im not mistaken? This new brain has more HP under the hood , built in WiFi and Conductivity so I don't see it being sold for less than $300 and thats a low estimate.

There is your upgrade path, now stop the whining and lets act like adults. I don't see people complaining about upgrading phones and paying $800 each time they upgrade.

For us in the uk it's worth getting just the brain for £450 as the complete 2016 set is over £800 and it doesn't even come with the new eb

 

[MnFish1]

Ok for those wanting an upgrade path here you go.

Step #1
Sell your classic apex for $350 (more if you can). After PayPal fees and shipping you'll be left with $300.

Step #2
Put the $300 towards the purchased of the 2016 Apex. New Apex will cost you $500

The 2016 Apex brain sells for over $450 in the UK, if ever sells here I doubt it will be any less than that. I could be wrong though but the chances are slim.

I believe the classic brain sold for $250 if Im not mistaken? This new brain has more HP under the hood , built in WiFi and Conductivity so I don't see it being sold for less than $300 and thats a low estimate.

There is your upgrade path, now stop the whining and lets act like adults. I don't see people complaining about upgrading phones and paying $800 each time they upgrade.

Your information is incorrect.

1. The price you think people could get for their classic is probably overestimated at least per recent ebay selling information (the most recent one sold for $355 had an extra EB8, another for $455 with several extra modules). If lots of classic owners decide to sell their Classic Units now (as you're suggesting, the price will drop much further).

2. The Apex (head only) costs (on Neptune's site EU 485 - which is $575 or so (not 450). The Apex 2016 in the US sells for 78% of the price of the 2016 unit in the UK) suggesting that a brain alone here would probably cost less than 450.

3. People complain about upgrading iPhones all the time - go to almost any site and read the exact same comments some are making here Neptune made about Apple.

4. I think Terence's upgrade plan makes more sense - Sell your apex classic Base Unit (he estimated $125 for that), buy a new 2016 Apex, keep the old stuff as spare parts or backup incase of problems with the new system. A replacement pH meter is 60$ A conductivity meter is 124.95 etc etc. You can use an EB8 with a new APEX - so you could have 2 EB's on your new Apex - or use it incase the EB832 has problems.

5. Saying that people don't agree with you are 'whining' is also not acting like an adult (but I get your point)

 

[jimmyzhou]

Can't wait I'm ready to buy!

 

[MnFish1]

Its also interesting - not to open another can of worms - and also somewhat disconcerting that Neptune is selling the 'Apex 2016' in Europe with an old EB8 (for >$1000 btw). This would seem to negate any of the concerns that some have voiced that selling the Brain alone to Classic Users in the US would make 'support (from Neptune)' more difficult for those users. Since this is the way they are selling them in Europe.

That is also the reason the sell the brain alone in Europe. People with a classic who want to upgrade from Classic in Europe do not get a new EB - so they sell the brain alone. Neptune made a business decision in Europe that 'made sense'. Offering a brain alone here doesn't seem to make as much sense (to me) but I understand the thoughts people have on the issue.

 

[Zaffor]

MnFish1

If you read through both threads you will find what I fell is an unnecessary amount of backlash considering this device was announced just a few days ago and is not due out until later in 2018

 

[MnFish1]

MnFish1

If you read through both threads you will find what I fell is an unnecessary amount of backlash considering this device was announced just a few days ago and is not due out until later in 2018

I read through both threads. Again I wasn't trying to bash you personally - I happen to think what you call backlash and others call whining is free market research for Neptune which will help them increase sales when the products come out. This comes from people that are overjoyed with the product and are saying 'I'll buy it' even if they don't know details (good for Neptune), It comes from people who question its utility (good for Neptune - they can address concerns before marketing it and perhaps tweak things). It comes from people who want an upgrade path - Even if they don't some up with an upgrade program, they have the opportunity to explain their rationale and convince the people who disagree with their stance (good for Neptune). About the only posts that are 'bad' for Neptune are the people who say I will never buy it because they are mad (any my guess is that they will still be tempted).

 

[Daniel@R2R]

I don't see people complaining about upgrading phones and paying $800 each time they upgrade.

I just want to point out (since the comparison has already been made several times) that no one (or at least very few people) buys an iPhone out right. It gets financed over the course of more than a year in $30ish dollar payments.

Just seems that the comparison of a smart phone purchase to the purchase of an apex isn't really comparing apples to apples.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

About the only posts that are 'bad' for Neptune are the people who say I will never buy it because they are mad (any my guess is that they will still be tempted).

Yeah. Agreed. I doubt very many who are participating in this discussion really are in the "never gonna buy it" crowd...even if they say they are. People who say that here are at least interested in the product, and so I tend to think that if the conditions were correct, they'd buy it, so... good for Neptune.

 

[Zaffor]

Im guessing that as more details are released we will see the discussion take a turn for the better and new questions will emerge

 

[MnFish1]

Changing the topic a little - based on the prelim information - which is the better controller - the Neptune Trident (allowing 3 tests, 1 of which is not needed anywhere as frequently as measured (MG), another which is normally measured much less than recommended (Ca)) or the KH Guardian which offers Alk monitoring (which some (I don't agree) say is the 'only' thing one needs to measure) and dosing. The KH Guardian version is more costly upfront - but do we know the cost of operation over months/years for both options? (edit - I did not mean to say GHL initially)

 

[Zaffor]

I believe they all use some kind of reagent
And possible a ph probe

 

[Terence]

I think that one of you should post this as a new thread on the RHF chemistry thread. That is, what are the plusses and minuses of using different methods of these automated alkalinity (and other tests).

For instance, and this is not likely understood by most, that the Mindstream actually does not measure dKH (it measures carbonate hardness which is a different number). Furthermore, it uses the water conductivity (what we use for salinity) in this calculation. Both because the environmental unreliability of conductivity in our aquariums (mostly not due to the sensors, but due to calibration, microbubbles, misplacement, etc) along with how it is used in the equation, this could make it possibly susceptible to large range of precision.

I personally would like to hear from experts such as Randy, Craig, and Jim over on that forum to hash out all this (the different methodologies) and help all of us better understand the tech.

 

[Broadfield]

Changing the topic a little - based on the prelim information - which is the better controller - the Neptune Trident (allowing 3 tests, 1 of which is not needed anywhere as frequently as measured (MG), another which is normally measured much less than recommended (Ca)) or the KH Guardian which offers Alk monitoring (which some (I don't agree) say is the 'only' thing one needs to measure) and dosing. The KH Guardian version is more costly upfront - but do we know the cost of operation over months/years for both options? (edit - I did not mean to say GHL initially)

That's a pretty good question. Since I imagine the Trident will be closer to $600 than $500, then you might as well say the KH Guardian and the Trident are the same price. The KH is a standalone... which is going to be nice for those that don't run a tank controller at all. If a reefer is already a 2016 Apex owner, then I think the Trident would be the logical choice. Because you could simply use a BRS doser($69) for your ALK dosing and keep the price close to the KH... while also having the ability to test calcium and magnesium. If a reefer is already an Apex classic owner, then the choice becomes a matter of money. Because if they already own a classic, then they are probably happy with it and satisfied with Neptune in general.

You could also ask of non tank controller owners: would you rather have the KH Guardian for $600 or the 2016 Apex/Trident and at least one doser for around $1500? Are all of the other advantages of what the Apex offers worth that extra money? I imagine there will be some that buy the Apex as their first tank controller just because of the existence of the Trident.

 

[ca1ore]

I think anyone expecting to get even $300 for a used classic at this point is deluded. It's the first rule of selling used gear that people always ask more for their own used stuff that's they'd pay for somebody else's. I originally bought the lite, so it's not worth all that much. Worth more to me on satellite tanks that defy running a USB cable.

 

[jason2459]

Re-purposing is what I've done over the years. I originally ran a reefkeeper on my main display tank. I upgraded it to an Apex Gold. I moved that reefkeeper over to my 20 gallon mantis tank. I then upgraded that Apex now Classic to the new 2016 Apex last year. Then I moved that Apex Classic to the mantis tank and moved the reef keeper over to a terrarium.

 

[Tristren]

A PID loop would be great for the Trident and the DOS unit? Will this be a feature?

That is part of the plan - basically a way to safely keep your levels in balance with stops if anything is out of line. This is also the reason to do the multiple tests daily. I don't think people have yet realized that part of reasoning.

@Terence can you expand on this?

I'm particularly interested in what new options will become available to us with the new information we will have, but I'm starting from a low base (meaning what is a PID loop). What are some of the other things you think may be a result of having the new graphs? Trends you suspect might show up?


Tony

 

[CuseReefer]

I agree. Also I think this latest announcement that the Trident (and possibly other future items) won't work with the classic will seriously hurt resale of the older units. Up to this point resale was very high but I think this latest info plus a possible large dump of classic units going on sale soon will kill the potential resale. I think Terrence's logic is flawed on this one.

I think anyone expecting to get even $300 for a used classic at this point is deluded. It's the first rule of selling used gear that people always ask more for their own used stuff that's they'd pay for somebody else's. I originally bought the lite, so it's not worth all that much. Worth more to me on satellite tanks that defy running a USB cable.

 

[ca1ore]

Presuming accuracy levels are as advertised, I can certainly see logic to multiple daily tests if using trident to control some form of dosing or CaRx. If just using as a monitor, I'd be hard pressed to see any logic to testing more than once daily.

 

[Reefcowboy]

I sold my classic right when the new Apex was announced. At that time my classic was maybe 5 months old. I did not like having to do that, but got good $ for the classic since people were not yet convinced on the new unit.

Without a Trident back then it was way easier to find buyers as things were still unclear as far as new gadgets/compatibility. I think the market price of the classic now will drop very fast as more info about it is released and people understand the value of getting the more capable unit to run it.

There are always new hobbyists not looking for all the bells and wistles, but I think classics will not be selling even close to what some are expecting, unless hooked to many modules and add ons.

Bottom line, sell that darn classic now, it will hurt more later.