Which controller should I get?

[DeadEnd]

Hey all,

I've been thinking about getting a controller and was hoping someone could guide me a bit. Right now, I’m running Radeon lights, MP40s, and a Versa M2, all through Mobius, along with a Helio thermostat.

Lately, the Helio has been acting up, so I'm considering a controller mainly as a backup solution in case it fails. I’ve been looking into Hydros because a lot of people seem happy with it. Also, I could use their ATO, dosing pumps, and maybe even the alk tester.

On the other hand, there’s the Apex, which has a module that would let me connect my wavemakers, lights, and return pump, and also has an ATO, dosing pumps, and the trident. But I keep seeing mixed reviews and a fair bit of discontent around Apex, which makes me hesitate.

So I’m looking for some advice:

1. Should I get a controller?
2. Hydros or Apex?
3. I’ve read that the Hydros dosers aren’t great, is that still the case?
4. Also, is the Apex trident a good investment?

Thanks in advanced!

 

[backbayreef]

I have both controllers across 3 tanks and below are my feedback on each:

Apex:
Pros: superb UI and proven over the years, easy to program
Cons: eb832 flakey, head unit network connectivity issues

Hydros:
Pros: rock solid hardware, very reliable 2Hhz network connectivity, easy to program
Cons: UI needs a little refinement

They both can do the job - I’m bias so I would go for an Apex. Get the WXM module and you can control all your Mobius devices (I may do that soon).

Good luck.

 

[KStatefan]

Hey all,

I've been thinking about getting a controller and was hoping someone could guide me a bit. Right now, I’m running Radeon lights, MP40s, and a Versa M2, all through Mobius, along with a Helio thermostat.

Lately, the Helio has been acting up, so I'm considering a controller mainly as a backup solution in case it fails. I’ve been looking into Hydros because a lot of people seem happy with it. Also, I could use their ATO, dosing pumps, and maybe even the alk tester.

On the other hand, there’s the Apex, which has a module that would let me connect my wavemakers, lights, and return pump, and also has an ATO, dosing pumps, and the trident. But I keep seeing mixed reviews and a fair bit of discontent around Apex, which makes me hesitate.

So I’m looking for some advice:

1. Should I get a controller?
2. Hydros or Apex?
3. I’ve read that the Hydros dosers aren’t great, is that still the case?
4. Also, is the Apex trident a good investment?

Thanks in advanced!

It sounds like this discussion started for heater control. I would use a Ranco/AquaLogic for heat control separate from any aquarium controller.

I have a GHL and no experience with those

 

[n2585722]

Since you mentioned ATO. My ATO pump is a Hydros dosing pump. It is in the garage 35ft from the tank. The tubing goes up through the attic between the pump and the tank. I use a rather complex ATO output to control the pump. It has 5 inputs for control. For the output to turn on in this case all inputs have to be in their active mode. The main input is the sump ATO level. When this goes dry then it needs to be topped off as long as all others are met and it is not forced off with the depends on setting. The second one is the leak detector at the tank. It has to be dry since I do not want to run a top off if there is a leak. The third leak is the leak detector at the RODI which is where the ATO pump is at along with the RODI unit and mix station in the garage. So if there is a leak there I do not want to run any pumps or the RODI are out there since I would not be sure which one may be causing the leak. The fourth input is the low level sensor on the DI reservoir. If that is dry then I don't want the pump to run. That will not last too long since the Hydro will turn on the RODI unit and refill the reservoir when that sensor goes dry. The last input is the sump high input and if that is wet then I do not want to top off since something is wrong. This is one of the backups for the ATO level sensor which would normally stop the top off when it is wet. The combiner mode is set to AND which means all inputs have to be in their active mode for the output to come on. The other setting OR would allow it to come on as long as only one of the inputs are in their active mode. I have has internal schedule off but with it turned on it will show the schedule settings in the output and let you set a running schedule but the inputs would still need to be met along with the schedule settings but for a ATO a schedule is not normally used. Next is the output device. This is where you would normally set the output port that the pump is plugged in. If using a simple doser this would be a drive port. I have used a simple doser for this for over 2 years but I got a Sole to test and figured a ATO pump would be a good test of the pump. For if input dependency unavailable is set to off. If for any reason any of the 5 inputs become unavailable the output will revert to off. Those inputs are spread out on several controllers in the collective. I have enable advanced settings turned on since I want to set max and minimum times for this output. The first one in minimum off time. That is set to 5 minutes. So when the output turns off it will remain off for at least 5 minutes unless it is forced off by the depends on setting. The the minimum off time will start when the depends on is released. The next one is the maximum off time. This setting is set to 3 hours. If it does not do a top off on my tank in three hours that is not normal and I want to know so all this will do is send an alert which is set later in the advanced settings. It will not turn on the output. The next setting is minimum on time this is set to 35 seconds. In this case that is not a lot of water since the dosing pump is set to a 55ml a minute flow rate. So once turned on it will run at least 35 seconds before turning off regardless of the inputs states. The maximum on time is set to 3 minutes and run past max on time is set to off so once it runs 3 minutes the output will turn off and a alert will be sent. More than likely you would need to intervene before it would turn back on. In this case that is just 165ml of water but it should not take more than that normally. Next is notification level which I have set to yellow. In my case it would send a push notification to my phone and iPad. The next settings active in modes which in this case is all of them. The next setting the depends on setting is set to a output called ATO OK. The dependency mode is set to off if off. So as long as that output is on it is ok to run the ATO when needed. If that output is off then the ATO will not run. The ATO OK output is turned off if either the drain or fill AWC pump is running. It is also turned off if the return pump output is off. Now to the actual ATO pump output. This is the Sole pump output and is set to run constantly instead of using a schedule. At this time the Sole is the only smart doser that can use this function. The flow rate is set to 55ml a minute. Now to the depends on settings which is how you would control it when set to run constantly. This is set to the ATO output I just discussed and the dependency mode is off if off. So if the ATO output is off then this output is forced off. If the ATO output is on then this output will come on. It will follow the ATO output's state. This is probably more complex that most will use for ATO. There is a ATO output type but it only has the one input for the water level sensor but does have the advanced settings.

 

[rtparty]

For ATO: get the Tunze Osmolator 3 and be done. None of the ATOs from the controller companies are worth it.

As for dosers: I liked the Versas more than the original DOS. I really like the BRS dosers on a standard timer. Rock solid and reliable.

If you want bulletproof heater control, get an Aqua Logic. Way better than anything the controller companies are putting out.

 

[Mickey]

I've used Apex for close to 20 years. At present I have 24 modules, including the ATO/ATK, 4 DOS units, 2 FMM modules, and the Trident. I've been very happy with it. Easy to program and the task function makes it even easier for new users. I have needed to contact support several times and always was satisfied, though I will admit it's a little slower to respond with the move and consolidation. Their user forum is top notch with lots of folks willing to help out.

 

[n2585722]

You mentioned dosing pumps. I use one of my X10 pumps for dosing all for reef. I do not use dynamic dosing for it yet. When I get the Maven I will try it using the calcium input for control. First is the output settings for the pump. The settings are family doser, type smart doser and the output device where in this case you choose which pump. I have been using this pump for almost 2 years now without any issues. I have the flow rate set to 10 ml a minute. It also shows which schedules it is used in once you setup a schedule or schedules for it. I have notify when reservoir low set to .1L which is the lowest amount you can set. This is calculated. You enter the amount in the container and as it is used the amount dosed is subtracted from the current amount. The notification level is set to orange so I will get an orange alert if the level drops below what the low level is set for. The next 2 screenshots are of the schedule used with the output. The type schedule is dosing regimen. Dynamic dosing is turned off. Total dosing per pump is the total for the whole period of the schedule. This one is for a 24 hour period. The total dose is set to 45ml. The dose count is how many doses per schedule which here I have it set for 4 doses. Doser count is set to 1 since I am only using the one doser for this schedule. Doser 1 is set to the dosing pump in the first screenshot. The speed is set to 10ml a minute since that is what I have it set for on the output and it is calibrated for that speed. Some of the pumps have a fixed flow rate and you will have to make sure you set the speed at that rate if it is that type pump. The smart pumps can run in both directions. If I wanted it to run in reverse here I would set the flow rate to -10ml per minute. Not all pumps will do this so make sure that it is one of those pumps and that is what you want it to do. Active in modes are all checked except for low power mode. This mode is entered when my power goes out and the controllers are running on backup batteries. I don't want to attempt to dose when power is low since the power applied to the X10 would only be 12v instead of the normal 24v. Now to the schedule part. The start is set to 3:15am. This is when the first dose will run. The end time is also set to 3:15am since I want it to cover a 24hr period. The time between the start time and the end time is divided by the dose count. So it will dose at the start of each time frame which in this case is 3:15am, 9:15am, 3:15pm and 9:15pm. The reason for 4 times a day is I also do a alkalinity test 4 time a day and a AWC 4 times a day. They are set an hour apart. First the alkalinity test then the AWC and then the dosing of KH buffer and 15 minutes later the All For Reef dosing. My controllers are set for non DST time but the logs are in DST if it is that time of the year. My actual test, AWC and dosing do not change but happen an hour later during DST. The schedule is set to run ever 1 days and every day of the week. Next is a log of the dosing pump output. As you can see the log is in DST time. This is about it for non dynamic dosing using a single schedule. I also use a dynamic schedule for my KH buffer so that one doses depending on the alkalinity reading from my iV alkalinity testing if interested I can post that for you. I also use my Minnow pumps for AWC and those use a dosing schedule also to do that.

 

[Pod_01]

Hey all,

I've been thinking about getting a controller and was hoping someone could guide me a bit. Right now, I’m running Radeon lights, MP40s, and a Versa M2, all through Mobius, along with a Helio thermostat.

Lately, the Helio has been acting up, so I'm considering a controller mainly as a backup solution in case it fails. I’ve been looking into Hydros because a lot of people seem happy with it. Also, I could use their ATO, dosing pumps, and maybe even the alk tester.

On the other hand, there’s the Apex, which has a module that would let me connect my wavemakers, lights, and return pump, and also has an ATO, dosing pumps, and the trident. But I keep seeing mixed reviews and a fair bit of discontent around Apex, which makes me hesitate.

So I’m looking for some advice:

1. Should I get a controller?
2. Hydros or Apex?
3. I’ve read that the Hydros dosers aren’t great, is that still the case?
4. Also, is the Apex trident a good investment?

Thanks in advanced!

GHL P4 works well, once you get over the initial setup you forget it’s there.
It just keeps on working…

 

[Espino963]

I had a horrible experience with Apex that made me quit the hobby for a few years. My unit bugged out and my ATO went bonkers while on a 2 day trip. My skimmer overflowed, then the sump then the tank. When I finally checked the camera my whole den was flooded. I had my mother n law come over and disconnect everything. Lost all my coral and some fish. I sold my tank due to this.

I would go with Hydros next time around

 

[Fury808]

My ears were burning...

Make sure to reach out to our support...even if you don't have a HYDROS yet. Put us to the test, starting with helping ID which HYDROS may work best to start with!

Thanks Connor, I'm in the market for a controller too. I have some specific needs vs wanting to control everything possible. It is really helpful to know that I can contact support and get help on exactly what to buy. It is bewildering!

 

[Fury808]

I have both controllers across 3 tanks and below are my feedback on each:

Apex:
Pros: superb UI and proven over the years, easy to program
Cons: eb832 flakey, head unit network connectivity issues

Hydros:
Pros: rock solid hardware, very reliable 2Hhz network connectivity, easy to program
Cons: UI needs a little refinement

They both can do the job - I’m bias so I would go for an Apex. Get the WXM module and you can control all your Mobius devices (I may do that soon).

Good luck.

What does UI mean?

 

[DrkNMighty]

What does UI mean?

User interface

 

[AydenLincoln]

Apex sorry I’m biased lol!

 

[Fury808]

User interface

Thank you!

 

[Mickey]

Problems can happen with any controller and they always happen when you are away from home. Good practice is to program in failsafes wherever possible. Like, what happens when if something runs too long, like an ATO. Program an alarm or an auto shut off after so many minutes, or leak detectors, it all depends on what condition you're guarding against.

The Neptune Auto Top-off programming includes an automatic shut-off after some number of minutes and also an alarm to alert you to a potential problem, assuming you follow the suggested programming.

 

[n2585722]

Problems can happen with any controller and they always happen when you are away from home. Good practice is to program in failsafes wherever possible. Like, what happens when if something runs too long, like an ATO. Program an alarm or an auto shut off after so many minutes, or leak detectors, it all depends on what condition you're guarding against.

The Neptune Auto Top-off programming includes an automatic shut-off after some number of minutes and also an alarm to alert you to a potential problem, assuming you follow the suggested programming.

Yes I agree about having failsafe's built into the system. I have my ATO set to run only 3 minutes and then turn off and send an alert. It also sends an alert if it does not turn on for over 3 hours. Once it is forced off after the three minutes it will require either the ATO sensor to go to the wet state or you will have to intervene by using override off or on and then set it back to auto. I posted the settings earlier in this post. It also has 5 inputs. The first is the sump water level sensor for ATO, the 2 leak detectors, then a low level sensor in the DI reservoir and the last is a sump overfull sensor. All inputs but the sump water level sensor will also send alerts that are setup on those inputs. I use the Hydros controller.

 

[Mickey]

@n2585722 - In no way was I implying that you couldn't have failsafes under Hydros controller. I just meant that you can have problems even with a controller, any controller, if you don't take precautions and plan on failsafes.

 

[n2585722]

@n2585722 - In no way was I implying that you couldn't have failsafes under Hydros controller. I just meant that you can have problems even with a controller, any controller, if you don't take precautions and plan on failsafes.

Sorry I did not take it that way. I was just agreeing about planning you settings in the controller for those times. You never know when a water level sensor will stop working. If it were to stop in the low level or dry state without the timed ATO output it would keep running until someone stops it. It is best for it to be setup to stop and allow you to check things out when it happens. I actually have 2 water level sensors that can be used for ATO so if I had to do it I can always change to the other sensor.

 

[Mickey]

Oops. Sorry I misunderstood. All good.

 

[rbtmcardle]

GHL P4 works well, once you get over the initial setup you forget it’s there.
It just keeps on working…

Not popular around these parts but I have 2 apex in storage and couldn’t be happier with GHL p4, doser 2.2 (x2), Doser Maxi, lightbars and ion director on the way

Amazingly stable and well built

 

[sky414]

If I were to start over I'd be going with Hydros. I don't know anything about their dosers.

People are down on apex lately due to reliability... I've never contacted neptune support - I have I have a

i have a hydros that I will sell for half price. I think they are not user friendly. The update made them even less user friendly