Who hosts whom?

Tumey · Nov 12, 2020

Sorry for the blues.... In my tank the frogspawn hosts my clowns! Lol

92Miata · Nov 12, 2020

JasonK84 said:
It’s not a discussion. There are clear rules on what defines a host. A clownfish isn’t a host. Unless it’s to a parasite, bacteria, etc.

Usage is language.

People have been saying clownfish host anemones for multiple decades now. People know what people mean when they say it.

You're correct that there's no discussion - it's over. The usage has entered the vernacular.

JasonK84 · Nov 12, 2020

pcon said:
This is a naive rebuttal. we are discussing english statements, which is why the language is intimately intertwined. The technical side is well defined. in the scientific literature it is quite clear the clowns are being hosted. There is no dispute of technical definitions, to say that clowns are hosting is technically incorrect. However, in common parlance the statement that the clowns host the nem remains, as it is widely understood to mean the same thing, and the technical distinction in context is unimportant. I personally find the few extra words worth being technically correct but merely posit this explanation for the persistence of the technically incorrect usage, it is an effective shorthand which is widely understood.

I didn’t say it wasn’t understood what a person meant when they say that the clowns are hosting. I just don’t see what the English language has to do with anything. You can say that the clown is hosting a nem in any language and it’s incorrect.

And it’s ok that you think my response was naive. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion.

Daniel@R2R · Nov 12, 2020

Nems are the host. IMO people say it backwards bc we are lazy. It's easier to say "I can't get my clowns to host" than "I can't get my clowns to accept the nem as their host."

AllanPritchard · Nov 13, 2020

My clowns won’t host in anything or correctly they choose not to be hosted by anything. Or in reality nothing has invited them over to the party. Shame really as watching clowns play in an anemone or a tentacled coral is kinda cool. And it’s not like you can throw in another pair of clowns that might be hosted without some possible fireworks between the original pair.

MnFish1 · Nov 13, 2020

pcon said:
This is a naive rebuttal. we are discussing english statements, which is why the language is intimately intertwined. The technical side is well defined. in the scientific literature it is quite clear the clowns are being hosted. There is no dispute of technical definitions, to say that clowns are hosting is technically incorrect. However, in common parlance the statement that the clowns host the nem remains, as it is widely understood to mean the same thing, and the technical distinction in context is unimportant. I personally find the few extra words worth being technically correct but merely posit this explanation for the persistence of the technically incorrect usage, it is an effective shorthand which is widely understood.

I don't see any length difference between "The clowns host the anemone" and "The anemone hosts the clowns". There is no difference? I.e. no shortcut? Judging by the voting "the clowns are hosting the anemone" is not 'common parlance" is it?

ricksmithsdca · Nov 13, 2020

MnFish1 said:
Its always been a question for me - why do people (to me incorrectly) - say that clowns host anemones - when in fact it seems (to me) that its the other way around. So I decided to do a poll - which should it be - and Please comment 'Why'? Might as well have some happy discussion during the pandemic

When someone comes over to my house, I am hosting. To me, it's the same concept. The anemone does not go to the clowns, the clowns go to the anemone so the anemone is the "host."

JasonK84 · Nov 13, 2020

MnFish1 said:
I don't see any length difference between "The clowns host the anemone" and "The anemone hosts the clowns". There is no difference? I.e. no shortcut? Judging by the voting "the clowns are hosting the anemone" is not 'common parlance" is it?

It’s just a bunch of phony ballots, that’s all.

pcon · Nov 13, 2020

MnFish1 said:
I don't see any length difference between "The clowns host the anemone" and "The anemone hosts the clowns". There is no difference? I.e. no shortcut? Judging by the voting "the clowns are hosting the anemone" is not 'common parlance" is it?

The fact you made this post is evidence that the misuse is common. Yes concise statements can be made either way. I suspect the reason is that typically the clowns are the subject of the sentence. The clowns (subject) are hosting my nem. (Predicate). The nem (subject) is hosting my clowns. (Predicate) The latter form also implies that the anemone is making the choice which is another factor which I think influences using incorrect language. I can’t think of a way concisely keep the subject of the sentence the clowns and imply that it is the clowns choice in doing so. I believe these factors combine to make the incorrect form remain in common parlance, though it is common knowledge in the hobby that the anemone is considered the host in this symbiont relation.

Dom · Nov 13, 2020

MnFish1 said:
Its always been a question for me - why do people (to me incorrectly) - say that clowns host anemones - when in fact it seems (to me) that its the other way around. So I decided to do a poll - which should it be - and Please comment 'Why'? Might as well have some happy discussion during the pandemic

Great Poll!

MnFish1 · Nov 13, 2020

pcon said:
The fact you made this post is evidence that the misuse is common. Yes concise statements can be made either way. I suspect the reason is that typically the clowns are the subject of the sentence. The clowns (subject) are hosting my nem. (Predicate). The nem (subject) is hosting my clowns. (Predicate) The latter form also implies that the anemone is making the choice which is another factor which I think influences using incorrect language. I can’t think of a way concisely keep the subject of the sentence the clowns and imply that it is the clowns choice in doing so. I believe these factors combine to make the incorrect form remain in common parlance, though it is common knowledge in the hobby that the anemone is considered the host in this symbiont relation.

Not sure this is entirely the reason - I mean - I had a friend from Germany - who always confused the words 'stomach' and 'mustache'. So - after dinner he would say 'my mustache is full' (for example). Of course - I understood what he 'meant'. In this case - everyone understands 'what the phrase means' - just like people understand what the word 'ain't' means. So - I'm not sure that just because a few people use this terminology that it means its 'correct' (linguistically or scientifically). But - Your first point was about length of sentences. Can you give an example of what you mean? Because I can think of a lot of ways to keep the clowns 'the subject' without using 'my clowns are hosting my anemone'. My opinion (and its just an opinion) - is that people have heard the term that way - and repeated it without thinking rather than the length, etc. But that what the 'discussion' is about

MnFish1 · Nov 13, 2020

Auquanut said:
Add a none of the above vote.

Unfortunately - you cant add another voting option in a poll - it has to be done. by a mod.

MnFish1 · Nov 13, 2020

92Miata said:
Usage is language.

People have been saying clownfish host anemones for multiple decades now. People know what people mean when they say it.

You're correct that there's no discussion - it's over. The usage has entered the vernacular.

Its interesting I have never heard this phrase until I started coming here - and I've been doing this a while as well.

92Miata · Nov 13, 2020

MnFish1 said:
Its interesting I have never heard this phrase until I started coming here - and I've been doing this a while as well.

Do a search of ReefCentral. You'll find threads from the late 90s with people having the same argument.

Language is dynamic. Word usage changes - whether it's 'correct' really doesn't matter.

sfin52 · Nov 13, 2020

Tumey said:
Sorry for the blues.... In my tank the frogspawn hosts my clowns! Lol

Would it be hosting if the frogspawn doesn't want them.

Tumey · Nov 13, 2020

sfin52 said:
Would it be hosting if the frogspawn doesn't want them.

You’re right. I don’t think the frogspawn wants them so we’ll call it intruding! Lol

Sisterlimonpot · Nov 13, 2020

sp1187 said:
and my 2 clowns prefer the side glass.

Would you say that the glass is hosting the nems?

MnFish1 · Nov 13, 2020

92Miata said:
Do a search of ReefCentral. You'll find threads from the late 90s with people having the same argument.

Language is dynamic. Word usage changes - whether it's 'correct' really doesn't matter.

right - I dont care.

MnFish1 · Nov 15, 2020

It appears the vast majority of people think that anemones host clowns - and though everyone understands what it means when people say clowns host anemones they are completely wrong LOLOLOL

. JK... I mean they are completely wrong - BUT - I guess in some circles this is common usage.... Like 'the water flows over the under gravel filter' - or 'the angelfish cleans the cleaner wrasse'. OKOKOKOKOK - all in fun. It was good to hear everyones comments - I didnt realize this was really a thing (the clown hosting the anemone) - so thanks to those who pointed it out!!

Catchemall · Nov 17, 2020

When you invite the clowns to your house you the house owner hosts the party. So the nem being the house and the clowns being the guest means the nem hosts the clowns