Clownfish genetics

[yeon.joon.hong]

Hi I was wondering how clownfish babies will turn out if I breed two different variations i.e. a snowstorm clownfish and a black ocellaris. I was wondering this because clownfish babies usually are just similar to their parents and at the fish store, there were 4 snowstorm clownfish until one dude who got there before me bought the mates of each pair leaving two pairs and the fish store owner decided to just keep them apart so I know that they won't pair because they've been like that for months? or will they pair? I'm not too sure, but there are other baby black ocellaris clownfish so I was wondering if I can still get snowstorm babies by pairing and breeding the two together or if it will make some mix

 

[Dbichler]

They could possibly pair but if they have been a pair before and lost their partner, they may have already changed to female and you would then have two females and one would kill the other. As far as babies of those go I believe you would have a mix batch of all different types. More of the standard clown color and pattern would be majority of the fish then some with mixed varying grades of storms.

 

[yeon.joon.hong]

They could possibly pair but if they have been a pair before and lost their partner, they may have already changed to female and you would then have two females and one would kill the other. As far as babies of those go I believe you would have a mix batch of all different types. More of the standard clown color and pattern would be majority of the fish then some with mixed varying grades of storms.

wait two females can coexist without killing each other right because now they're in the same tank? is there any dna test kits i can buy to sex them?

 

[Dbichler]

Anything is possible but if they were in the same tank at the fish store are you even sure any of them were actually paired up?

 

[yeon.joon.hong]

Anything is possible but if they were in the same tank at the fish store are you even sure any of them were actually paired up?

so basically there were two pairs and then each of their mates got sold so they were left alone in two tanks for a couple of months and a few months later, which is now they got put together but they seem to have no interest in each other and i was told that they'll become female if left alone

 

[Grumblez]

so basically there were two pairs and then each of their mates got sold so they were left alone in two tanks for a couple of months and a few months later, which is now they got put together but they seem to have no interest in each other and i was told that they'll become female if left alone

Do you have pictures? How big are they? If you have two mature full grown clownfish and seperate them the previous male will start the transition to female within a few weeks normally. It takes clownfish around 18 months at least to become a female from birth. Fish stores normally get them at 3 - 6 months age, they probably already had a partner with established roles, meaning one was bound to become a female and the other one a male but no "sex change" to female had probably started yet.

If they are close to the same size though that can also make pairing difficult as nether will easily submit to the other. Ether way your best bet is to observe closely and if they start fighting very badly, specifically locking jaws you'll have to return one or put in a different tank.

To answer your other question clownfish babies generally look like one of there parents or a mix. Also sometimes whatever their grandparents where. For example its not abnormal for two normal orange ocellaris to have a snowflake or some other variation offspring mixed in because one of their parents might have been a snowflake or whatever.

Which is actually why mocha clownfish are so common because Black ice which are very popular are a combination of a black ocellaris and orange snowflake. That pair makes ether mocha clowns or black ice clowns. So even 2 black ice clowns will make some (darker than standard mocha maybe) plain old 3 stripe mocha babies.

Which is also why its so hard to find true Darwin Ocellaris, most captive bred ones running around have some standard ocellaris mixed in somewhere up the line which from what I understand is why many off them never turn fully black (keeping some orange around the mouth maybe etc)

Hope that helps, clownfish genetics is one thing I find very fascinating.


Oh also it is possible to have 2 females co-exisit but typically only in very large tanks or in a very large group.

 

[yeon.joon.hong]

Do you have pictures? How big are they? If you have two mature full grown clownfish and seperate them the previous male will start the transition to female within a few weeks normally. It takes clownfish around 18 months at least to become a female from birth. Fish stores normally get them at 3 - 6 months age, they probably already had a partner with established roles, meaning one was bound to become a female and the other one a male but no "sex change" to female had probably started yet.

If they are close to the same size though that can also make pairing difficult as nether will easily submit to the other. Ether way your best bet is to observe closely and if they start fighting very badly, specifically locking jaws you'll have to return one or put in a different tank.

To answer your other question clownfish babies generally look like one of there parents or a mix. Also sometimes whatever their grandparents where. For example its not abnormal for two normal orange ocellaris to have a snowflake or some other variation offspring mixed in because one of their parents might have been a snowflake or whatever.

Which is actually why mocha clownfish are so common because Black ice which are very popular are a combination of a black ocellaris and orange snowflake. That pair makes ether mocha clowns or black ice clowns. So even 2 black ice clowns will make some (darker than standard mocha maybe) plain old 3 stripe mocha babies.

Which is also why its so hard to find true Darwin Ocellaris, most captive bred ones running around have some standard ocellaris mixed in somewhere up the line which from what I understand is why many off them never turn fully black (keeping some orange around the mouth maybe etc)

Hope that helps, clownfish genetics is one thing I find very fascinating.


Oh also it is possible to have 2 females co-exisit but typically only in very large tanks or in a very large group.

so the thing is they're from petco and I'm wondering because I literally live right next to the petco headquarters and the petco next to it and the quality is good but I'm pretty sure the clownfish are a couple months old but they're less than 1 inch long not sure because age they've been there for a couple months because come on who goes to petco to get clownfish. So yeah the clownfish are a couple months old but they're still tiny maybe 3/4 an inch or 2 cm. and the two females are in like the standard petco tank on the wall so maybe 5-10 gallons. They look a lot bigger in the picture but they're like an inch at most

 

[Dbichler]

If they’re that small their still juveniles. They probably wouldn’t pair up for quite a while. Doubt the other two sold were paired either.

 

[yeon.joon.hong]

If they’re that small their still juveniles. They probably wouldn’t pair up for quite a while. Doubt the other two sold were paired either.

but they're old though? wouldn't they change sex because they're old? rather than size? idk im stupid

 

[Grumblez]

but they're old though? wouldn't they change sex because they're old? rather than size? idk im stupid

Based on the size they so not look near the 1 year+ required to start changing gender

 

[RedReefer]

I lost my 3 year old platinum male from a pair to a wave maker recently. So now I have a large female, and a tough time finding a larger size male to accommodate her. So I’m on the look out for a larger male that hasn’t transited to female. Maybe I’ll get lucky , but it’s harder to find a nice single male, pairs are easier to find. I’ve had the female three years so she’s staying , for sure.

 

[yeon.joon.hong]

I lost my 3 year old platinum male from a pair to a wave maker recently. So now I have a large female, and a tough time finding a larger size male to accommodate her. So I’m on the look out for a larger male that hasn’t transited to female. Maybe I’ll get lucky , but it’s harder to find a nice single male, pairs are easier to find. I’ve had the female three years so she’s staying , for sure.

you can just have a small male that can start to pair. Yeah, one time, a fish got stuck in my hang on the back filter and it was so sad pulling it out. It nemoed.... so yea

 

[yeon.joon.hong]

Based on the size they so not look near the 1 year+ required to start changing gender

oh? so they can still pair if they're like 6-9 months old?

 

[CollectOyster04]

For an idea of the offspring, one could look at the reptile trade for a clue(specifically ball pythons). Figuring out if the genes to a specific morph is a dominant or recessive trait will determine how the babies will look. I'm not overly familiar with the genetics of clowns, but I'd imagine you would get some of each variation, some of the combined genes, potentially some normal looking fish, as well as normals that would have the genes to produce those other variations. At least with reptiles, knowing the dominance of the various mutations, one could guesstimate probable percentages for what genes the offspring would have. I'm sure it's probably very similar for clownfish.

 

[yeon.joon.hong]

For an idea of the offspring, one could look at the reptile trade for a clue(specifically ball pythons). Figuring out if the genes to a specific morph is a dominant or recessive trait will determine how the babies will look. I'm not overly familiar with the genetics of clowns, but I'd imagine you would get some of each variation, some of the combined genes, potentially some normal looking fish, as well as normals that would have the genes to produce those other variations. At least with reptiles, knowing the dominance of the various mutations, one could guesstimate probable percentages for what genes the offspring would have. I'm sure it's probably very similar for clownfish.

thank you thank you thank you for the great information. I always thought theyd come out really messed up looking you know? im not sure how to explain what i was feeling

 

[yeon.joon.hong]

do they grow slow? because they've been at the store for a couple months and even if they don't change gender won't they be a bonded pair? i've heard like they should sleep close to each other swim together etc. will they pair? they just don't seem too interested in each other and im not sure if clownfish sex maturity comes with age or size, which one is it? I attached a video... do you think they'll pair?

Based on the size they so not look near the 1 year+ required to start changing gender

 

[CollectOyster04]

Maturity comes with age plus environmental factors. Most would say clownfish become mature around 1.5-2yrs of age. Just because you have 2 fish doesn't necessarily guarantee that they will bond/mate. I'd imagine they would more times than not though.
I'm sure having multiple clowns, as they mature, one of them would transition to become the dominate female.
The real question becomes why do you want to breed clowns in the first place. In my opinion, the market is so saturated, there wouldn't be much incentive if your goal is to make some money in the process. If you want the experience, then great, best of luck to you. Having a bonded/mated pair is probably the easiest part of the whole process.
Again, personally, I don't care to ever have another pair of clownfish in any of my tanks due to their aggression. Last pair I owned was in a 8ft long (32" wide) 300 gallon, and both would go out of their way from one corner of the tank to the far end just to bite the *%#$ out of me. Party tricks involved showing people how the clowns would jump out of the water trying to bite or latch onto my fingers/hand where I could pull them out of the water still latched onto my hand. Easiest two fish I have ever caught out of a fish tank. No net required.

 

[Grumblez]

Maturity comes with age plus environmental factors. Most would say clownfish become mature around 1.5-2yrs of age. Just because you have 2 fish doesn't necessarily guarantee that they will bond/mate. I'd imagine they would more times than not though.
I'm sure having multiple clowns, as they mature, one of them would transition to become the dominate female.
The real question becomes why do you want to breed clowns in the first place. In my opinion, the market is so saturated, there wouldn't be much incentive if your goal is to make some money in the process. If you want the experience, then great, best of luck to you. Having a bonded/mated pair is probably the easiest part of the whole process.
Again, personally, I don't care to ever have another pair of clownfish in any of my tanks due to their aggression. Last pair I owned was in a 8ft long (32" wide) 300 gallon, and both would go out of their way from one corner of the tank to the far end just to bite the *%#$ out of me. Party tricks involved showing people how the clowns would jump out of the water trying to bite or latch onto my fingers/hand where I could pull them out of the water still latched onto my hand. Easiest two fish I have ever caught out of a fish tank. No net required.

Lol my ocellaris are the sweetest to me, they'll come eat from my fingers without biting me. They have been mean to fish smaller than them but that's it. They really seem to think bangaii fins are a tasty treat

 

[Largeangels]

Those two are juvies. Buy them and they should eventually form a male/female pair.