Confused ! Tank has not cycled in 7 months !!

[P-Dub]

Alright . I was doiong a waterchange just in case. Every 3 weeks the tank usually still looks perfect . But I just did them to be on the safe side .

If you have been doing water changes like that for the entire time you had your set-up you have essentially been removing the nutrients to feed the beneficial bacteria. During cycling, I have purposefully not done any water changes for at least a month or two then only a small one. Once the ammonia has reduced to low levels and the parameters are not changing I then would wait a little longer then perform a 100% water change and be done. Chances are that your tank is in stasis at this point and you have actually completed your cycle. There are sufficient bacterial colonies to handle the livestock you have. Still, 40 - 50% seems like a lot.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is the 0.025 ppm in the first post the real total ammonia number? That’s not a problem, whether accurate or not

 

[Snake132]

But every

Is the 0.025 ppm in the first post the real total ammonia number? That’s not a problem, whether accurate or not

one says it should be 0

 

[Snake132]

S

If you have been doing water changes like that for the entire time you had your set-up you have essentially been removing the nutrients to feed the beneficial bacteria. During cycling, I have purposefully not done any water changes for at least a month or two then only a small one. Once the ammonia has reduced to low levels and the parameters are not changing I then would wait a little longer then perform a 100% water change and be done. Chances are that your tank is in stasis at this point and you have actually completed your cycle. There are sufficient bacterial colonies to handle the livestock you have. Still, 40 - 50% seems like a lot.

o what should I do from now on ?

 

[Brew12]

But every

one says it should be 0

Most people can't measure it that accurately. In reality, ammonia will never actually be zero. It is produced by fish and waste and must be released into the water to be processed by the bacteria. Since this is a continuous process there will always be low levels of ammonia in the water. It only becomes a problem when the amount processed is less than what is added, causing ammonia to rise.

Your tank is fine, enjoy it!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Are you using rodi water?


A fwiw, I belive technically a “mini cycle “ is somthing that causes ammoina to be released. A mined dry rock most likely won’t do that.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

But every

one says it should be 0

Not everyone, certainly. Those that do are not being accurate. I'm not sure what kit you even have that can read that low. Are you sure of the number? Ammonium 0.025 ppm? Not 0.25 ppm?

And you actually write ammonium, so that means you are reporting total ammonium/ammonia. Not free ammonia. Correct?

Here's my comment, where I bolded the important point:

Ammonia and the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php

Because ammonia's toxic effects appear at levels significantly below those that are acutely lethal (0.09 to 3.35 ppm NH3-N or 1.3 to 50 ppm total NH4-N at pH 8.2), and because some organisms in a reef aquarium may be more sensitive than the few organisms that have been carefully studied, it is prudent to err on the side of caution when deciding what concentrations of ammonia to allow in a reef aquarium or related system.

My suggestion is to take some sort of corrective action if the total ammonia rises above 0.1 ppm. This suggestion is also made by Stephen Spotte in his authoritative text, Captive Seawater Fishes.6 Values in excess of 0.25 ppm total ammonia may require immediate treatment, preferably involving removal of all delicate (ammonia sensitive) organisms from the water containing the ammonia. Some of the possible actions to take are detailed in the following sections listed below.

 

[cracker]

What are You using for filtration?

 

[beaslbob]

silent cycle caused by algae consuming ammonia directly?

for instance did your ph rise after a few weeks?

my .02

 

[HB AL]

I doubt after 7 months you cant not be cycled. I haven't tested ammonia and nitrite in almost two years, maybe just stop testing it for piece of mind unless you add a ton of dead rock or fish at once. My tank has a large amount of corals and what most consider overly stocked with fish, and ones that would be miserable in my tank but I have no such issues.

 

[P-Dub]

S

o what should I do from now on ?

Nothing. You are done and likely have been for some time...

 

[joe0813]

need way more live rock... rule of thumb is a pound per gallon

 

[P-Dub]

need way more live rock... rule of thumb is a pound per gallon

joe813 has made a point. Depending on the objectives of your tank and the livestock you plan on keeping, will be the basis on which you determine how much live rock you will need. For your current bioload, and depending on how dense the rock you currently have is, I would say that you are fine. I'm not sure how heavy or dense the rock you have is but if your plans are to keep a larger number of organisms you will need to up your biological filtration some way. The sand bed helps and you can add alternative forms of biological filtration such as Bio blocks and additional live rock within the sump. This brings us back to the point of your original quandary and further bolsters my opinion that your cycle has been complete for some time. The less rock you have in your system to cycle, the faster your aquarium will cycle. Joe has a good point that you need to consider if you wish to add more fish or corals.

 

[tank o tang]

So the inverts are back in dt doing ok after copper treatment?

 

[Lasse]

Your tank is cycled - no doubt. If not cycled you should read NO2. IMO most hobby ammonia test is crap - they often show wrong numbers and nearly always to much. I have never use Seachem´s ammonia alert but it works after another principle and detect only NH3 (ammoniac or ammonia gas) -> the toxic species of the NH3/NH4 and it seems to be more reliable than other tests. The picture you show in post 2 show an ammonia alert showing no danger at all. I would trust that instead for other tests that test the whole package NH4/NH3.

To test os good but sometimes I think that the testing devil cause more damage than doing good. We use cheap hobby tests and expect correct values at low range´s - so low range´s that reliable testing equipment would cost more than the aquaria to buy.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Rick Krejci]

... The picture you show in post 2 show an ammonia alert showing no danger at all. I would trust that instead for other tests that test the whole package NH4/NH3.

This...
I use the Ammonia Alert is the most reliable indication of NH3. Yours is showing it's great, so don't worry about testing or excessive water changes if it's bright yellow like that. You are definitely cycled. Just keep an eye on it if you add rock or increase feeding or bioload.

I wouldn't even worry about testing Nitrite since it's not very toxic to SW fish and is almost definitely very low now that you're cycled.

And Nitrate of 0.2 is not high as you're notebook suggests. 20 would be a little high but with Fish only, it's nothing to worry much about.

 

[Water Dog]

My biggest concern after reading this thread is that you’ve dosed copper in your DT...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

While I have no problem with folks relying on the Ammonia Alert, I'd point out that if what he wrote is literally true (he still hasn't confirmed it, however), then there is no inconsistency and both tests say there is no issue:

Ammonium 0.025
Nitrite.
Nitrate
Ph. 8.0-8.3
Salinity 1.024
Temperature. 26.c

The ammonia alert says there's no concern because his free ammonia is only 0.0022 ppm or less (by calculation), which is a factor of 10 below where the ammonia alert even begins to get a greenish hue:

http://www.seachem.com/ammonia-alert.php
"As little as 0.02 mg/L of free ammonia will produce a greenish hue on the detector surface."

 

[Snake132]

Most people can't measure it that accurately. In reality, ammonia will never actually be zero. It is produced by fish and waste and must be released into the water to be processed by the bacteria. Since this is a continuous process there will always be low levels of ammonia in the water. It only becomes a problem when the amount processed is less than what is added, causing ammonia to rise.

Your tank is fine, enjoy it!

Thanks great to heat I was under the impression it should be 0 forever and if there was any ammonia it was bad ... so low concentrations are normal . <0.02 right ? I shouldn’t be worried great

 

[Snake132]

Not everyone, certainly. Those that do are not being accurate. I'm not sure what kit you even have that can read that low. Are you sure of the number? Ammonium 0.025 ppm? Not 0.25 ppm?

And you actually write ammonium, so that means you are reporting total ammonium/ammonia. Not free ammonia. Correct?

Here's my comment, where I bolded the important point:

Ammonia and the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php

Because ammonia's toxic effects appear at levels significantly below those that are acutely lethal (0.09 to 3.35 ppm NH3-N or 1.3 to 50 ppm total NH4-N at pH 8.2), and because some organisms in a reef aquarium may be more sensitive than the few organisms that have been carefully studied, it is prudent to err on the side of caution when deciding what concentrations of ammonia to allow in a reef aquarium or related system.

My suggestion is to take some sort of corrective action if the total ammonia rises above 0.1 ppm. This suggestion is also made by Stephen Spotte in his authoritative text, Captive Seawater Fishes.6 Values in excess of 0.25 ppm total ammonia may require immediate treatment, preferably involving removal of all delicate (ammonia sensitive) organisms from the water containing the ammonia. Some of the possible actions to take are detailed in the following sections listed below.

No way 0.25 the highest I have ever had has always been < than 0.02 never higher ever . I just thought less that 0.025 was very bad because everyone said it should be 0 I might have wrote it in my notes as 0.25 but I meant less than 0.025