Current Quarantine Protocol

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal for anthias no deviation from standard protocol recommended? Ensure they are eating well then ease into copper?

I don’t lag before getting them into coppersafe - reach full copper within 72 hours.
Some anthias species are delicate overall and don’t fare well in bare quarantine tanks, but there isn’t a good alternative.

 

[LiquidSpace]

@Jay Hemdal

I just received two swallowtail angelfish. These are my first angels and I’m wondering if they’re sensitive to copper? Am I good to ramp up copper power to therapeutic levels over 24 hours?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal

I just received two swallowtail angelfish. These are my first angels and I’m wondering if they’re sensitive to copper? Am I good to ramp up copper power to therapeutic levels over 24 hours?

Are these melanospilos? Male/female?

Copper power or coppersafe is fine for Genicanthus angels. You don’t need to ramp it up slowly, but you do need to accurately dose to 2.25 ppm. I usually do this using the Hanna checker and in two doses over 12 to 24 hours.

 

[LiquidSpace]

Are these melanospilos? Male/female?

Copper power or coppersafe is fine for Genicanthus angels. You don’t need to ramp it up slowly, but you do need to accurately dose to 2.25 ppm. I usually do this using the Hanna checker and in two doses over 12 to 24 hours.

Yep, melanospilos, both female though. I’ll get it going, thanks!

 

[mpatterson42]

I'm curious what a proper quarantine plan for puffers would be, I've read they don't do well with copper. I'm planning on getting a blue spotted puffer and spiny box / striped burrfish some time in the future.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I'm curious what a proper quarantine plan for puffers would be, I've read they don't do well with copper. I'm planning on getting a blue spotted puffer and spiny box / striped burrfish some time in the future.

They don't handle ionic copper very well, but they do fine in amine-chelated copper such as coppersafe and copper power. I made a list of the more definitive fish medication sensitivities:

Fish treatment variations by species and medication

Fish treatment variations by species and medication Not all fish species are able to be treated with generally used medications. There are some sensitivity issues between species that must be managed. However, sensitivity to a drug can also be seen in different dosages, how the drug is applied...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[EuphyllinOHk]

Shrimp/goby pairs are one of those special cases - you cannot quarantine those gobies along with the shrimp. What I do is an observational quarantine - add the shrimp goby pair as the first fish to the tank, then observe them for 30 days. Meanwhile, I fully quarantine any other fish to go into that tank.

Jay

I'm currently wrapping up the copper phase of an active clownfish quarantine, but I'm looking forward to making a quarantine plan for a shrimp+goby pair. I have a few questions:

• My LFS dips new arrivals in Hydroplex. I'm guessing that inverts risk carrying ich tomonts. Would Hydroplex knock tomonts (or protozoans in general) off of invertebrates reliably? I assume that Hydroplex is invertebrate safe.
• My first thought would be to keep the pair in observation, as suggested above, but would a "pro-active preventative" cycle of prazipro/parasitic treatment be a "better" course of action? I'm not too knowledgeable of the life cycle of flukes and the like, but I feel certain that their eggs would survive the Hydroplex dips. I can't reference anything in particular, but I seem to remember that shrimp gobies are particularly susceptible to internal parasites.
• Is there any success to be found in the tank transfer method, in the event of ich/velvet? I have the capacity to do the transfers and I feel as if the pair would have a small enough bioload to make this feasible between 5g and 10g tanks.
• Follow up to the above, how many "transfers" is too many for the "pairing"? My concern would be the "strength" of the pairing between the shrimp and the goby. In other words, would too many transfers break the pairing between the two? It's my understanding that there are certain varieties of pistol shrimp that aren't long-term compatible with shrimp gobies, but, I'm assuming (hoping) that I and my LFS are able to make the distinction between the varieties.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I'm currently wrapping up the copper phase of an active clownfish quarantine, but I'm looking forward to making a quarantine plan for a shrimp+goby pair. I have a few questions:

• My LFS dips new arrivals in Hydroplex. I'm guessing that inverts risk carrying ich tomonts. Would Hydroplex knock tomonts (or protozoans in general) off of invertebrates reliably? I assume that Hydroplex is invertebrate safe.
• My first thought would be to keep the pair in observation, as suggested above, but would a "pro-active preventative" cycle of prazipro/parasitic treatment be a "better" course of action? I'm not too knowledgeable of the life cycle of flukes and the like, but I feel certain that their eggs would survive the Hydroplex dips. I can't reference anything in particular, but I seem to remember that shrimp gobies are particularly susceptible to internal parasites.
• Is there any success to be found in the tank transfer method, in the event of ich/velvet? I have the capacity to do the transfers and I feel as if the pair would have a small enough bioload to make this feasible between 5g and 10g tanks.
• Follow up to the above, how many "transfers" is too many for the "pairing"? My concern would be the "strength" of the pairing between the shrimp and the goby. In other words, would too many transfers break the pairing between the two? It's my understanding that there are certain varieties of pistol shrimp that aren't long-term compatible with shrimp gobies, but, I'm assuming (hoping) that I and my LFS are able to make the distinction between the varieties.

Preventative dips are never 100% successful as any dip capable of killing the resting stage of parasites will harm the fish. Hydroplex is a “trade secret”. I would not use it on invertebrates. Here is a thread about it:

Ruby Reef Hydroplex

I'm trying Hydroplex in my QT for 7 days Add 2 oz. (60 ml) of HYDROPLEX per 5 gal. (20 liters) of water. Dosage may be repeated 24 hours and every 48 hours for up to 7 days. Can you add garlic power, vitamarin-M, focus and metroplex, kanaplex to the food?

www.reef2reef.com

I’ve never tried moving a shrimp goby pair through TTM, I’d be afraid it would disrupt their partnership.

 

[kboogie]

@Jay Hemdal I saw some make a post about SafetyStop as an alternative to a full quarantine when you don't have the ability to have a separate quarantine tank. I agree with the concept of something is better than nothing but, I was surprised by the number of people believe SafetyStop is all that is needed and a full quarantine was a waste of time and undue stress on the fish, I'm paraphrasing.

I was wondering if you could share your expertise to help us understand what bathes like SafetyStop actually do and if they are killing all possible life cycle stages of common parasites that potentially exist on new fish. For example, will bathes kill ich in the trophont stage?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal I saw some make a post about SafetyStop as an alternative to a full quarantine when you don't have the ability to have a separate quarantine tank. I agree with the concept of something is better than nothing but, I was surprised by the number of people believe SafetyStop is all that is needed and a full quarantine was a waste of time and undue stress on the fish, I'm paraphrasing.

I was wondering if you could share your expertise to help us understand what bathes like SafetyStop actually do and if they are killing all possible life cycle stages of common parasites that potentially exist on new fish. For example, will bathes kill ich in the trophont stage?

Formalin dips like this are not 100% effective against fluke eggs, and ich tomonts/trophonts.

I had developed a "triage approach" to quarantine many years ago that was in essence, the same as safety stop (that was developed later on). I monitored the mortality rate of shipped-in fish and it was much, much higher with fish that were shipped/dipped and put into a tank, than those that were shipped and allowed to recover in a stable tank for 3 days before proceeding with a full quarantine process. It turns out that hitting shipped fish with a formalin dip at the end of a transport is a very bad idea. Fish from the LFS with a short transport would have less of an issue in that regard.

Then, there is the whole issue of formalin as a household toxin. I've really pulled back from suggesting people use formalin in their homes any longer. My personal exposure has been years in the making, and I presume I'll pay for it at some point in the future.....I remember as a kid we used formalin as a net dip and how it made my eyes water and my throat hurt.

 

[kboogie]

Formalin dips like this are not 100% effective against fluke eggs, and ich tomonts/trophonts.

I had developed a "triage approach" to quarantine many years ago that was in essence, the same as safety stop (that was developed later on). I monitored the mortality rate of shipped-in fish and it was much, much higher with fish that were shipped/dipped and put into a tank, than those that were shipped and allowed to recover in a stable tank for 3 days before proceeding with a full quarantine process. It turns out that hitting shipped fish with a formalin dip at the end of a transport is a very bad idea. Fish from the LFS with a short transport would have less of an issue in that regard.

Then, there is the whole issue of formalin as a household toxin. I've really pulled back from suggesting people use formalin in their homes any longer. My personal exposure has been years in the making, and I presume I'll pay for it at some point in the future.....I remember as a kid we used formalin as a net dip and how it made my eyes water and my throat hurt.

Thank you as always!

Follow up question. Your comment suggests there is some modest level of effectiveness of formalin dips on trophonts. If so, that is interesting. I wouldn’t use formalin because of the cancer risk but it is interesting to hear that there is something that can impact trophonts.

 

[LiquidSpace]

@Jay Hemdal

Are we seeing Uronema or wounds from being picked on by the other Anthias? I had five lyres tails come in and this one passed within 24 hours. The other four look and are acting fine. I also have a single Genicanthus melanospilos in QT with them and know they’re susceptible to Uronema as well.

For a timeline…this fish died on Wednesday. Everything else is looking fine through today.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal

Are we seeing Uronema or wounds from being picked on by the other Anthias? I had five lyres tails come in and this one passed within 24 hours. The other four look and are acting fine. I also have a single Genicanthus melanospilos in QT with them and know they’re susceptible to Uronema as well.

For a timeline…this fish died on Wednesday. Everything else is looking fine through today.

It could be Uronema and minor aggression. The open mouth and the lesion indicate it might be Uronema.

 

[LiquidSpace]

It could be Uronema and minor aggression. The open mouth and the lesion indicate it might be Uronema.

I read your article on Uronema and some of your posts and it sounds like you’re of the opinion that this usually develops during the collection process and you haven’t ever seen internal Uronema passed onto another fish? In that case, if everything goes well through quarantine should I just proceed as usual and put them in the display? I don’t want to subject the fish to anything more than the copper and prazi if it’s not necessary.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I read your article on Uronema and some of your posts and it sounds like you’re of the opinion that this usually develops during the collection process and you haven’t ever seen internal Uronema passed onto another fish? In that case, if everything goes well through quarantine should I just proceed as usual and put them in the display? I don’t want to subject the fish to anything more than the copper and prazi if it’s not necessary.

I don’t have any confirmed cases of internal Uronema passing on to other fish. I have had multiple fish in a system die from Uronema but they were all recently through the supplier chain so I have no way to know if multiple fish were all pre-infected or if one gish passed it on to others during quarantine - I think it’s the former though.
You can iso look ate Uronema in many established aquariums as it is not an obligate parasite - yet those fish never develop a disease from it.

 

[LiquidSpace]

I don’t have any confirmed cases of internal Uronema passing on to other fish. I have had multiple fish in a system die from Uronema but they were all recently through the supplier chain so I have no way to know if multiple fish were all pre-infected or if one gish passed it on to others during quarantine - I think it’s the former though.
You can iso look ate Uronema in many established aquariums as it is not an obligate parasite - yet those fish never develop a disease from it.

Thanks for your insight. I really hope I can do a phase of QT without coming to you with questions one of these times :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:

 

[Roughneck]

Hi @Jay Hemdal

I'm currently following your 2024 QT method posted in the front page. Apologies if this was already asked, but do you do water changes between the 3ea Prazipro treatments? The bottle says to do a 30% water change prior each treatments.


Thanks for the help

 

[Reefer1978]

Hi @Jay Hemdal

I'm currently following your 2024 QT method posted in the front page. Apologies if this was already asked, but do you do water changes between the 3ea Prazipro treatments? The bottle says to do a 30% water change prior each treatments.


Thanks for the help

Prazi should not be impacted by water changes between treatments as it's mainly active for the first 24 hours from what I recall. I did a water change prior to dosing second treatment.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi @Jay Hemdal

I'm currently following your 2024 QT method posted in the front page. Apologies if this was already asked, but do you do water changes between the 3ea Prazipro treatments? The bottle says to do a 30% water change prior each treatments.


Thanks for the help

It is best to do a 25 or 30% water change prior to each dose when using Prazipro in a display tank - to lower excess nutrients. In a fish only quarantine tank, if the water is testing good for pH and ammonia, you don’t really need to, but of course it won’t hurt.

 

[FlameangelLover]

2024 Quarantine Procedures

Jay Hemdal
David Scarborough


Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed, proactive quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before adding the fish to your display tank. This process does not fully control Brooklynella, Uronema, viruses or internal parasites. Those issues however, make up a proportionally much smaller number of disease cases in marine fish.

Quarantine tank Requirements:

Tank must be large enough to comfortably handle the number and size of fish for up to 9 weeks.

• Tank should have a filtration system that has completed the nitrogen cycle. Canisters, HOB overflow filters, or appropriately sized sponge filters are acceptable.
• The tank should offer clear lateral viewing of the fish, bins and opaque containers that only allow for "top down" viewing are not a good idea to use, since careful observation of the fish is very important.
• The filtration system must not use carbon or other absorbing/adsorbing filtrants (e.g. Polyfilter) that might absorb copper or medication. NO calcareous rock LIVE or DEAD.
• Bare bottom should be used. A saucer with non-calcareous sand can be utilized for wrasses, gobies, blennies or other species which are overly stressed by the bare bottom. Painting the underside of the tank black can also help
• Heater/thermometer
• Removable structure, e.g. PVC pipe may be used to provide hiding places for the fish.
• Ambient light will often be adequate for the QT tank. Avoid using bright reef lights.
• A means to maintain oxygen levels should be available. Air stones and sponge filters are usually adequate. Powerheads may create too much current and they do not aerate well.
• A lid should be used to prevent the fish from jumping out of the tank.
• Set salinity level and temperature to the same levels as in your Display Tank.

Days 1 – 2: Observation - let the fish settle in and determine proper diet.

• Set QT temperature to 78 - 80 degrees F.
• Acclimate the new fish to the QT:
  • Measure salinity of the water in which the fish arrived.
  • Adjust salinity in QT to within 2 ppt of the salinity of the water in which the fish arrived.
  • Acclimate the fish to the QT gradually over 45 minutes.
• Observe the fish for any symptoms which might influence the treatment(s) you should administer.
• Determine if the fish are eating adequately to proceed.

Day 2: Begin Copper Treatment

• Add Coppersafe or copper power to the QT to achieve a concentration of 2.25 to 2.50 ppm over the course of 24 hours. This can be done in two doses 12 hours apart or multiple smaller doses if you prefer. Coppersafe will not be effective until a concentration over 2.0 ppm is present. A target of 2.25 ppm will allow for fluctuations without the risk of falling below the 2.0 ppm threshold. Hanna Copper checker is the most accurate test to use.
• Never use ammonia removing products or other reducing agents (dechlorinator) when dosing copper. Most products bind copper with an amine to reduce toxicity to the fish. Reducing agents break that bond, releasing free copper that can harm the fish.
• Feed and top off tank water normally.

Days 3 – 32: Continue Copper Treatment

• Monitor copper ppm regularly. If the copper level remains steady day to day, you can test less often, but if the concentration falls below 2.0 ppm, you may need to extend the 30-day count for the copper treatment.
• Monitor water quality parameters as you would for your display tank.
• If the copper or ammonia levels ever exceed guidelines, be prepared to administer water changes (pre dosed with copper) to correct the problem.

Day 34: Copper Done

• Begin copper removal through water changes.
• Binding agents Cuprisorb may be used to hasten the removal process, but work best with ionic copper.
• Carbon is usually too slow or ineffective at removing copper and should not be relied upon without adequate monitoring.

Day 35: Praziquantel Treatment #1

• Confirm copper has been removed adequately to drop the concentration to less than 1 ppm. Copper and Prazi should not be administered simultaneously unless there is suspicion of a severe fluke infection.
• Add Praziquantel to the QT per the dose on the label.
• Ensure the additional oxygenation source is working. This treatment will potentially reduce the oxygen levels within the QT to critical levels without additional air flow.
• Remove carbon or other chemical filtrants. Continuing running any protein skimmers, but don't collect the skimmate, let it run back into the tank.

Day 42, Day 49: Praziquantel Treatment #2, #3

• Add Prazi to the QT per the instructions on the label, 8 days apart. Spacing needed for these treatments is based on killing new flukes hatching from previously laid eggs. The time interval is not well known. A range of 7 to 9 days seems to give the best results.

Day 64: New Fish QT complete

• Observe fish for 2 weeks after last prazi dose. Note: many public aquariums do not move fish out of quarantine unless they are in the middle of a full copper treatment. This vastly reduces the risk from Cryptocaryon or Amyloodinium. To use that method, substitute a copper treatment for this 2 week observation period, and move the fish out around day 10.
• Conduct a 5-minute fresh water dip if the fish is of a species particularly susceptible to Neobenedenia flukes. If flukes are detected, reduce QT salinity to 50% and hold for an additional 35 days.
• Confirm salinity and temperature of QT and DT are the same, add fish to DT.

Variation from this process:
Do not use copper on sharks, rays, eels or flashlight fish.
Wild caught clownfish are prone to Brooklynella, and may need formalin treatments.

All wild caught fish have a potentially high mortality rate from a variety of other reasons, just be aware that losing fish during this quarantine time can happen.

How often should you do water changes and how much should you do?