DIY lighting question

[SkyAurelia]

i am building a custom light for my reef, its a 40g tank. i have alot of the stuff but held off on the actual leds as i wanted some advice on them.

i plan to use cool white, royal blue, blue, and UV leds, cree for most of them and seoul viosys uva 420nm

can any one tell me how many of each i should use, oringally i was going to use 4 6k CW, 12 RB, 12 B, and 6 UVA.

would this be good or should i use more or diffrent colors?

#DIYwizards

 

[SkyAurelia]

instead of the leds i mentioned above for the final build i am considering these, they seem to be cheaper and the white seems to be stronger, any thoughts on these?

http://www.aquastyleonline.com/products/420nm-Actinic-Violet-LED.html

http://www.aquastyleonline.com/products/Epileds-LED-3W-Blue.html

http://www.aquastyleonline.com/products/Bridgelux-LED-Royal-Blue.html

http://www.aquastyleonline.com/products/Bridgelux-LED-white-10000K.html

 

[firechild]

I would recommend against 10,000K emitters, rather go with cool white (5-6000K) or even a mix of warm and cool white. This will give you a better balance of wavelengths. You could add 660nm red emitters as his is lacking in most white LEDs, cyan is another popular colour to bridge a gap.
Ratios might depend on the current you run the emitters at. For example I run around 2:1 blue to white but I run my royal blues at 1500mA and my whites at 1000mA.

 

[SkyAurelia]

i read that red leds are not needed for reefs and just cause algea blooms same with green, and the lights i seen at the lfs are only royal blue, that said what abhout the number of leds i am useing would it be enough or should i use more? im not sure if 36 leds is enough, and you didnty mention the uva leds i assum what i have is fine then?

 

[oreo54]

i read that red leds are not needed for reefs and just cause algea blooms same with green, and the lights i seen at the lfs are only royal blue, that said what abhout the number of leds i am useing would it be enough or should i use more? im not sure if 36 leds is enough, and you didnty mention the uva leds i assum what i have is fine then?

Bit of semantics first. 420nm isn't UV.
UV starts at 400nm.

Plenty of opinions on whites, red, green. Not a lot of hard facts.

How your local fish store displays corals may or may not be relevant
Do they run that spectrum all day or what?

 

[ShanePike]

Look at the LED choices and combinations that well-respected LED fixtures use.

Some examples:

https://www.reefi-lab.com/reefi-uno-2-0-pro/

Orphek Atlantik iCon LED Lighting for Coral Growth & Color pop

Orphek Atlantik iCon LED Lighting for Coral Growth & Color pop is the new generation of the Atlantik series offering you access to the future

orphek.com

Radion G6 – EcoTech Marine

ecotechmarine.com

 

[oreo54]

instead of the leds i mentioned above for the final build i am considering these, they seem to be cheaper and the white seems to be stronger, any thoughts on these?

http://www.aquastyleonline.com/products/420nm-Actinic-Violet-LED.html

http://www.aquastyleonline.com/products/Epileds-LED-3W-Blue.html

http://www.aquastyleonline.com/products/Bridgelux-LED-Royal-Blue.html

http://www.aquastyleonline.com/products/Bridgelux-LED-white-10000K.html

Get most from Stevesleds at least in part.

Seoul Z5 Royal Blue 3W-8794102500

www.stevesleds.com

You may need to work more if you want secondary optics and more than likely between shipping and asst issues you may not save money on the leds but you will have much better quality.

Now an example and a bit of a catch..
The cool whites (sunplus) have a wide beam angle. 162-ish degrees. Recommend it as like the central row.
The reason for those is the cri is around 95. Better color rendition than most any other easily available small (not COB) emitter.

Theory would have the white channel have a mix of high k low k leds to get the wee bit of red boosted.
Your choice.
No I don't work with or for Steves..
Too bad they were out of the Seoul z4 royals. Price was dirt cheap.

Those prices for that "egg" style led is arguably too high. They are usually like 50 cents each and as low as 10 cents each. Now i can't exactly say I'm comparing apples to apples since the led chip inside can be variable in quality.
You can source them cheaper aand they will end up being cheaper than the above Steves list though.

Btw it would look like this.. Had to use a 415 in place of the 420 so peak will be shifted right a bit with the viosys.

Your ratio of blue to "white" is dependent on what you want it to look like really.
Or if you do a growth vs view type schedule.

My normal suggestion is to design for how you want it to look the majority of the time.
Then consider if you want to do any of the growth vs looks type thing.

Above design would not make the more natural look people very happy and to reach a lower k spectrum
of say 140000k well your photon load would be quite decreased.
Actually 8 whites and 2 reg blue and you have a 27886 Kelvin look.
So you can see how extreme one needs to go to make that with the above led composition.

Anyways ..food for thought..
Half the fun of building is figuring out WHY you want to do something.

 

[SkyAurelia]

i want to keep corals and bta for sure, i have the 4 cool whites in the center row, i think the 6k cool whites so far look great, mostly i know what i want i just am trying to figure out how many leds i need to keep my 40g reef healthy then going to adjust for looks from there if that helps.

right now i am running 4 cool white down the middle with around 6 blue and 6 royal blue, and 6 420nm violets

this was a temp solution to a failed led bar i bought and just decided to build my own so i can replace parts when they fail, i am going to be placeing a order for more leds and just trying to figure out how many and what ones i need.

i assume the 12rb 12b 4cw and 6 420nm will be fine then? also should i replce the 420nm with something else?

also im going to be useing 60 degree lenses with the leds

 

[oreo54]

i want to keep corals and bta for sure, i have the 4 cool whites in the center row, i think the 6k cool whites so far look great, mostly i know what i want i just am trying to figure out how many leds i need to keep my 40g reef healthy then going to adjust for looks from there if that helps.

right now i am running 4 cool white down the middle with around 6 blue and 6 royal blue, and 6 420nm violets

this was a temp solution to a failed led bar i bought and just decided to build my own so i can replace parts when they fail, i am going to be placeing a order for more leds and just trying to figure out how many and what ones i need.

i assume the 12rb 12b 4cw and 6 420nm will be fine then? also should i replce the 420nm with something else?

Spectrum is up to you and is also not exactly my area..
If you want to add real UV someone recently pointed these out to me:

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/New-Energy/LST1-01G01-UV02-00?qs=wd5RIQLrsJizK8We51U19w%3D%3D&srsltid=AfmBOooPW3m91sDFrEGVPPKxx0EKo2tZ6EvMgPdtlUVm2e0o700_yrUc

I'd not use too many.

420 is fine for photosynthesis and apparently "pop"..
.https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/420nm-lights.951034/

If you subscribe to the "broad blue band" philosophy you come up with something like this:

As to how many.. well one guesstimate is take the leds at the drive current and voltage to figure watts.. Design so as to have 3 watts for 1 gallon.. AT the ratio you like the best.

It's a very "flexible" rule of thumb.
You can't use lumens, You don't have a par meter and using Lux is very iffy so whats left.. old school.
Keep in mind that's based on "gurus" saying that you need 1w led for 1w of MH/t5.
It's a questionable assumption but generally does not favor >1w led for 1W of other light types though I assume some would throw a 250w mh over a 40..
A 150 would probably be adequate.. thus the 120 number which is close enough.
Hey it's diy add more later if necessary..

Plan on dimming as well.

 

[SkyAurelia]

i am able to control all the lights on/off and dimming easy enough with the controllers i have, one is wifi the other is manual,

my psu is a

Mean Well SE-350-48​

its 48V 7amps

based on what i can figure out i dont think this psu can push 40 3w leds though i did have almost 32 on it at one point so im a little cvonfused about it saying such a low amount can be ran on it.

looked into it and the leeds i have V is as follows
CW 3v
RB 3v
NB 3.4v
420nm 3.5v

according to rapidled where i got my psu it supports 14 3v leds per LDD

Mean Well SE-350-48

.

rapidled.com

hopefully its enough for what i need, seeing as 40 seems to be the min for this build

so based on what was said 3W per 1G all my leds are 3W leds so sounds like i need about 40 of them start off.

thank you guys for the help, based on what i gather from all this for my 40g tank i will start off with 40 leds
4 CW
16RB
16NB
6 420nm violets.

if anyone thinks this might not be enough to keep my haitian anemone, bta, green star polyp and duncan alive please let me know cause i dont want them to die while im building my leds. already lost a bta to the first light going bad.

going to build it as close to this as i can

LDD 1 = 4 CW - 6 420nm 33V
LDD 2 = 14 RB 42V LDD max if i understrand correctly
LDD 3 = 10 NB 35V
LDD 4 = 2 RB - 6 NB 27v

 

[oreo54]

i am able to control all the lights on/off and dimming easy enough with the controllers i have, one is wifi the other is manual,

my psu is a

Mean Well SE-350-48​

its 48V 7amps

based on what i can figure out i dont think this psu can push 40 3w leds though i did have almost 32 on it at one point so im a little cvonfused about it saying such a low amount can be ran on it.

looked into it and the leeds i have V is as follows
CW 3v
RB 3v
NB 3.4v
420nm 3.5v

according to rapidled where i got my psu it supports 14 3v leds per LDD

Mean Well SE-350-48

.

rapidled.com

hopefully its enough for what i need, seeing as 40 seems to be the min for this build

so based on what was said 3W per 1G all my leds are 3W leds so sounds like i need about 40 of them start off.

thank you guys for the help, based on what i gather from all this for my 40g tank i will start off with 40 leds
4 CW
16RB
16NB
6 420nm violets.

if anyone thinks this might not be enough to keep my haitian anemone, bta, green star polyp and duncan alive please let me know cause i dont want them to die while im building my leds. already lost a bta to the first light going bad.

going to build it as close to this as i can

LDD 1 = 4 CW - 6 420nm 33V
LDD 2 = 14 RB 42V LDD max if i understrand correctly
LDD 3 = 10 NB 35V
LDD 4 = 2 RB - 6 NB 27v

stick to no more than 700mA for all colors except violets which i'd run at around 350mA. Below I broke that rule

The LEDs have a v( f) of 3.5 - 3.6 for blue and whites. 3.8 for violets.
36 x 3.6 + 3.8 x 6 @ 700mA
91w + 16w = 108 w.

You can only do about 12 per series string
12 x 3.6= 43. 2v. @ 700mA or 30 watts/ldd

At 500mA your voltage will be lower.
Btw I wouldn't trust the listed numbers totally due to lot variation.

500-550mA is more typical for whites/ blues
Anyways
Based on 12 led limit
Ldd1 9 cool white (8000k), 3 reg blue giving you a 14000k like channel (8, 4 =20000k- ish)
Ldd2 12 royal b,
Ldd3 6 violets , 5 royal b (actinic) (12 limit)
Ldd4 pick it ...4,4,4 CW,reg blue,rb

41 x 3.6 x .7 = 103w
6 x 3.8 x .7 = 16w
119 w total...

All ballpark estimates.
I assume you are limited to a 4 channel controller?
Remember you usually can double up on the pwm side
Say add another ldd string of say 12 royal blues and dim w the same signal as the above ldd2

Oh yea. 14 would be fine if the v(f) at your chosen current is 3v or less.

>>>> Cree LEDS (XM-L). XM-L consumes 2.90V at 700ma, Luxeons only consume 2.60!!.

Many name brand LEDs or if run low current will be 3v or less.
Current and voltage are interlinked.
Oh and heat too. Hotter the led the lower the voltage at the set current.

One variation { or addition)
Ldd 1 can be ww plus reg. blue
Est approx 6500k.. a daylight channel

Or as I mentioned twin
Ldd channel 1(a) 9,3 cw,blue
1(b) 9, 3 cw, blue
Combined 9300k and adds 30 watts
149w.
Just to be clear that's 2 ldd's on one channel not a split.

I'd not recommend any whites higher than 8000k. Just not worth it.
Just do the trick of like plus reg blue to do high k white.
The royal blue plus teeny amount of yellow/ green phosphor sorts of strips out all the reds and asst. colors.
At least that's my theory
Thus better to have a richer lower k and a separate blue

 

[SkyAurelia]

all my LDD's are 700ma, i have 4 channles but i do have more LDD's on the side so can upgrade with more later on by adding another driver board and psu, i know alot of the light choice is prefrence i so far like the way the leds i have make it look so want to stick with the ones i have, didnt plan on adding any WW unless its really needed, i like the amount of white i get from the 4 6000k CW's mixed with the RB's B's and V's

i have tested some of the leds on the on my sset up how i mentioned above.

mostly i guess im going to get the leds im sharing here and will set it all up once i have every thing, will post some pics of the build and let you guys know how it works out for me.

thank you for all the help, though not sure it helped me confusion with all this at all lol.

 

[SkyAurelia]

i just had a issue where the diy housing i had ordered got refunded on aquastyle, is there another place i can find a housing for my leds i dont want them exposed to the salt water that splashes up

 

[SkyAurelia]

update on that: found this and going to go with this heatsink and spalsh guard set up costs more but at leat its in stock lol.

MakersHEATSINK SLIM Kit

 

[oreo54]

all my LDD's are 700ma, i have 4 channles but i do have more LDD's on the side so can upgrade with more later on by adding another driver board and psu, i know alot of the light choice is prefrence i so far like the way the leds i have make it look so want to stick with the ones i have, didnt plan on adding any WW unless its really needed, i like the amount of white i get from the 4 6000k CW's mixed with the RB's B's and V's

i have tested some of the leds on the on my sset up how i mentioned above.

mostly i guess im going to get the leds im sharing here and will set it all up once i have every thing, will post some pics of the build and let you guys know how it works out for me.

thank you for all the help, though not sure it helped me confusion with all this at all lol.

You have a 350 watt power supply. Current guesstimate is around 110w for the leds..
You won't need a new ps for awhile.

You can mine this for ideas...

General DIY LED thread

so we have lots of derailing talk in other threads about DIY lights and what would be the optimal LED layout these days. would love to start a conversation about this. As for a project i'm working on. I'm planning a diy light for a frag tank in my fish room as something for some tinkering...

www.reef2reef.com

The ww vs cw thing goes back and forth. The argument "for ww" is basically it fills in a bit of red wthout using separate red leds.

 

[SkyAurelia]

yeah im just not useing reds to begin with though, as far as i can tell i dont really need red, unless there is some info saying other wise some where that i overlooked.

yeah i didnt figure i would need a new one any time soon, it even has spots to attach another driver board for more ldds.

 

[oreo54]

yeah im just not useing reds to begin with though, as far as i can tell i dont really need red, unless there is some info saying other wise some where that i overlooked.

yeah i didnt figure i would need a new one any time soon, it even has spots to attach another driver board for more ldds.

See #274..

General DIY LED thread

I like it. It's unique

www.reef2reef.com

Yea"need" is an interesting word.
If you want to see non-flourescent red things as red you need red photons to reflect back to you..
As to photosynthesis :

Sometimes it just depends who you believe..or what you want to grow:

Spectral Requirements​

Acropora corals require a broad spectrum of light, with wavelengths ranging from 400 to 700 nanometers (nm). This range includes both blue and red light, which are essential for photosynthesis and growth. In addition, Acropora corals require a moderate amount of green light to support their pigments’ fluorescence.

Brighten Up Your Acropora Collection: Top Lighting Techniques | Sunnyside Corals

Discover the top lighting techniques for promoting healthy Acropora growth in your reef aquarium. From T5 and LED lighting to metal halide options, our comprehensive guide covers everything you need to know about Acropora lighting. Learn about spectral requirements, intensity, and duration to...

sunnysidecorals.com

Photosynthetic Efficiencies of LEDs: Results of Short Term Exposure to LED Lights

Dana Riddle studies zooxanthallae exposed to varying intensities and colors of LEDs between 365nm (UV-A) and 657nm (red). The collected data sheds light on how different spectra affect photosynthesis and the Xanthophyll Cycle, helping us to better understand how corals use and respond to light.

reefs.com

When your red/orange clownfish don't appear black anymore, you have enough red light.

 

[SkyAurelia]

intresting so the red andd green are actually needed, at least in small amounts, i will take that into consideration for the final build.

thank you thats the info i was looking for to push me into the red and greed leds, cause past that post every thing i seen said it was not needed. that pretty much proves it wrong for the most part to me lol

 

[SkyAurelia]

on i used my only 23 leds i had laying around to make a temp light for my tank, i have the green and red on the same line as the cool white but they seem to pulling more power then the line likes so will have to get some wire to wire up the cool whites, will be placing a order today for more leds, wire, and other things i needs.

right now sense the CW are under powred there not puting out enough light, but its all i have tell more stuff gets here.

 

[SkyAurelia]

ok figured out why my whites got so dim, i put them on the same rail as the green and red, and the green and red are a higher ma and is sucking the power out of the rail, doing some rebuilding and adding a new rail to solve.