Foxface & Clown Trigger question

[SMaggart]

Hello,
I need some advice. I have a 5 yr old Foxface that is generally a nice guy in the tank. I also have a 3 yr old Clown Trigger in there and he too is pretty docile. The tank is 180 gal. 2 days ago my Trigger was acting like he can’t swim, listing, and laying on his side in the sand while eating his shrimp. Literally in his mouth, he would chew then stop and so on. I checked all my levels & temp. PH was low, added that. Salinity 1.024, added 3 gallons fresh water. Later in the day he was back to swimming all over & looked fine. No spots, nothing. Then yesterday back to same but fighting to swim. He lays there & just breaths and once in a while he manages to move but only on his side. Anyone suspect my Foxface stung him? Hes still alive today, I separated him from the others in the tank so they don’t pick at him, but he’s acting paralyzed like, yet flutters his fins trying to get up but can’t. I’ve never seen this before. He ate on his side... he’s certainly a fighter & trying. My lights are off and all my other fish are fine... should I attempt Fishmox? I just can’t tell if its a bacterial issue or what? help?

 

[Sleeping Giant]

Weird actions, I'm interested in what others think

 

[lion king]

I've never wtnessed a foxface sting, but have seen lionfish stings, so it is possible. You would see visual signs and to do real damage the wound would be obvious and substantial. Having been in the tank that long I can think of 2 other possibilities: a severe nutritional defiencency or the results of chemical poisoning.

What is his diet, a diet rich in thiaminese will cause defiencies which can prove to be deadly.

When I say chemical poisoning that includes treatment or prolonged exposure with copper or antibiotics. Tank treatment with tank cleaners or pest removers, as well as something unknown. Im talking about his entire history, organ failure takes time.

Has there been new additions as disease may also be possible, any other indications.

 

[SMaggart]

Their diet is a mix of Brine shrimp, krill, frozen (thawed) shrimp, marine cuisine for carnivores, mysis shrimp & Formula One for carnivores. Obviously not all in one feeding, but a little mix & match. I did add PH, and because of how he was acting 2 days ago some API Stress Coat. That’s it. My tank has been established for 5 years and cannot add anymore fish until my Grouper goes to the new Aquarium being built here in Branson, MO. (He is getting too big & eats everything new so I’ve donated him when they’re ready). I haven’t added any antibiotics yet because I don’t know if he has that kind if illness. I’m asking if maybe I should?

 

[lion king]

What do you mean you added ph, do you mean ph buffer, yes that can cause a serious problem. I do not believe in addind mediation just cause, without a possible diagnosis you will likely do more harm than good. The disease and tretment forum would be the best place for advice on treatment.

 

[SMaggart]

What do you mean you added ph, do you mean ph buffer, yes that can cause a serious problem. I do not believe in addind mediation just cause, without a possible diagnosis you will likely do more harm than good. The disease and tretment forum would be the best place for advice on treatment.

Yes PH buffer because I did a test of the water & my PH was low. 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, same Nitrate but has been coming down since I’m taking 1 cup a week of sand out. I think that may be part of that problem. So you think its the PH buffer that has him like this? I’ve had to add in the past due to added water / 10% tank changes because of the Nitrates issues. Should I try Fishmox antibiotic for fish? What about my others that are fine? Will it effect them?

 

[lion king]

Ph buffer is bad news and an antibiotic will not help. Test your ph, do not add anything else. Chasing ph is a bad idea.

Are you running a skimmer, this helps with oxygenation.. Aim power heads at surface of water, you may also add an air stone.There could be a depletion of oxygen. A fast ph shift will also alter O2 levels. If not too late when ph stabilizes and proper O2 levels return, he will likely fully recover.

 

[Sleeping Giant]

Maybe try a water change, it should change the ph, but as stated above, don't chase ph. And I wouldn't add ph buffer, it goes up and down to most of us.

 

[SMaggart]

Thank you both for great information. My Ph was at 7.8, so I had added enough buffer to bring it up to 8.0 which I feel is still low but didn’t want to shock the fish. I already have a long air stone running the length (3ft) of the (4ft) tank. I just tested everything again and ph is still at 8.0, ammonia is 0, Nitrite is 0 & Nitrate is maintaining it’s normal level as I weekly remove 1 cup of sand to assist in bringing it down. Question, since you both agree to stop using buffer and stop chasing ph, (which is normally not a problem unless tank changes & large amounts of fresh water is added). How Should I maintain the ph where it needs to be? Remember, a 10% tank change for me in a 180gal tank is 18 gallons of fresh water. So I try to avoid 20% changes. Pain in the butt!

 

[SMaggart]

 

[Sleeping Giant]

I would say try adding fresh air, open some windows

 

[SMaggart]

 

[Sleeping Giant]

It almost looks like a bit of a dust storm, I'm wondering if the sandbed is getting tossed up, and irritating the fox face

 

[Raege]

Two of my favorite fish not sure what’s going on with the behavior here has hope #reefsquad can give dole ideas

 

[SMaggart]

It almost looks like a bit of a dust storm, I'm wondering if the sandbed is getting tossed up, and irritating the fox face

Yes you’re seeing correctly, that is thanks to my demolition master Eddy (tomato clown). He too is pretty big & loves to flutter his tail & kick up the sand. I just took the video to post, (apparently just after he moved some more) but most of the time its very clear water.

 

[SMaggart]

did the video not post?

 

[Sleeping Giant]

Saw them, tank looks great

 

[lion king]

Tank looks good, I didn't see the clown trigger.

Check the ph in your fresh salt water. What is your fresh water source, distilled water can have a very low ph and throw off the ph of your mixed saltwater. Most modern mixes today recommend using right after the water clears after mixed. Some will recommend waiting for ph to stablize. I'm not sure if you store your water how excessive mixing and higher temps may have on ph.

Macro algae has a positive effect on stabilizing ph, and also absorbs nitrates and phosphates. Have you thought of a refugium or algae reactor.

 

[SMaggart]

Tank looks good, I didn't see the clown trigger.

Check the ph in your fresh salt water. What is your fresh water source, distilled water can have a very low ph and throw off the ph of your mixed saltwater. Most modern mixes today recommend using right after the water clears after mixed. Some will recommend waiting for ph to stablize. I'm not sure if you store your water how excessive mixing and higher temps may have on ph.

Macro algae has a positive effect on stabilizing ph, and also absorbs nitrates and phosphates. Have you thought of a refugium or algae reactor.

Thank you for your message. I have 5 gallon water jugs I fill with Glacier water at the store. City water has a lot of lime & high calcium which would destroy my tank, pump & anything water touches basically. I do let the jugs sit capped to room temperature 24hrs before adding to the sump to maintain around 78*. I do have an ESHOPPS S - 220 protein skimmer as well. I really only need to add Instant Ocean salt to the sump maybe once every 6 months. The salinity levels usually maintain the same for a long time (which surprises me because I have to consistently add fresh water in the sump when it goes down. I am guessing it’s because the tank is so big). 1.022 - 1.024 area. So next time I add salt water mix I’ll check for ph levels thank you! That’s something I didn’t know or think of. I check the water before using it for any levels and its usually 0 across the line. So check “after” mixing in the salt & when its clear. I have not thought about the refugium or algae reactor. More great advice & I’m certainly going to check that out. Thank you. Capone (Trigger) is in isolation with lights off & away from other aggressive fish that like to pick on the weak & nip fins.

 

[SMaggart]

Here you can see him when he was feeling better..