Ich eradication vs. Ich management

[Amado]

To be fair, QTing on a mass scale is a difficult and expensive process. Diseases don't always respond to the "standard treatments" and when one fish needs alternative treatment, all of his tank mates are along for the ride. If I'm lucky, I can successfully QT a batch of fish in just two weeks. But if complications arise it can sometimes take months before the fish are all clear. Every situation is different, and realistically not all fish are going to make it when complications arise. Most LFS cannot absorb those kind of losses and stay in business.

So why should I ? Why should I spend money on sick fish ? Why should I give you money for fish that will die if not treated.

 

[Humblefish]

So why should I ? Why should I spend money on sick fish ? Why should I give you money for fish that will die if not treated.

If you feel that way, then it would be best to just maintain a fishless DT. Corals/inverts don't necessarily need fish in order to thrive.

 

[Amado]

Yes that was my solution. I care about my coral. But most people like like fish and a aquarium without fish is a deal breaker.

For me coral are all that matter.

So again the true solution is to have a fish only salt water tank that you can treat with copper or a coral only tank with inverts and Coral and no fish.

 

[Fudsey]

Or have 2 tanks, one DT and one fish only that can be treated if necessary and if the fish are healthy then transferred to your DT .....

 

[Amado]

Or have 2 tanks one DT and one fish only that can be treated if necessary and if the fish are healthy then transferred to your DT .....

Actually that wouldn’t work you would need
4 tanks. 1 display 1 fish quarentine 1 coral quarentine and 1 invert. This is not acceptable for most people keeping fish. Someone in nyc/California/sf that’s living in a 1 bedroom apt where the sq ft is $1,000 a ft. Or over seas in Paris/Shanghai/London where sq ft is even more expesive having multiple tanks is just not going to work.

 

[Fudsey]

Not true, 2 tanks would work. You don't need to QT fish in a FO tank as you can treat the whole tank if necessary. And if you don't add any additional corals to the DT you don't need a coral QT. You can start with a coral QT and then transfer everything to the DT. Once your DT is established with corals you won't need the coral QT and can then make it a fish QT and begin the process of making your fish healthy to be transferred to the DT once accomplished.

 

[Amado]

Not true, 2 tanks would work. You don't need to QT fish in a FO tank as you can treat the whole tank if necessary. And if you don't add any additional corals to the DT you don't need a coral QT. You can start with a coral QT and then transfer everything to the DT. Once your DT is established with corals you won't need the coral QT and can then make it a fish QT and begin the process of making your fish healthy to be transferred to the DT once accomplished.

That would only be true in a fish only tank.
In my opinion I would never do a fish only salt water tank. To me that makes no sense.
I would rather a discus fresh water tank if I was going to do fish only. Saltwater would be a waste of time and effort. I can have a beautiful fresh water display tank with discus for a fraction of the time and effort.

The reason I have a salt water tank are the inverts and the corals. My corals are more important than the fish. So I don’t add fish anymore. I only focus on keeping my corals happy.

 

[Humblefish]

You don't need to QT fish in a FO tank as you can treat the whole tank if necessary.

You can really only treat a FOWLR with copper & prazi, and it can be problematic to maintain a stable Cu level due to absorption.

All other medications will be rapidly biodegraded out in a mature DT: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/qt-and-biofilm.292878/

Praziquantel is somewhat of an exception, but only because it needs just 2-3 hours in the water to do it's job.

 

[Paul B]

Why is this ok ? Why are local fish store allowed to sell us sick fish?

The stores are not selling you sick fish. They are selling you normal, natural fish as all fish in the sea have parasites as they should. The parasites allow the fish to remain immune. I want parasites to come in on my fish to keep up their natural immunity. If they didn't, I would have to find some parasite to add.
I don't want quarantined fish as they would have no immunity and would always be sick. My fish never get sick and I would not allow them to get sick. I want normal, natural, very healthy, spawning fish with their full compliment of parasites because that's the way fish are supposed to live. If fish die from parasites or other infections, it is our fault, not the store. If we collected our own fish, they would have parasites.

Feed correctly and your fish would never die from these things and we would never have to go on disease threads.
Quarantining and feeding dry or sterile foods will not protect your fish from anything and there is no such thing as quality dry food.

Learn from fish in the sea which eat parasites and diseases with every bite of what they eat which is always fresh, whole fish. Fish in the sea don't hardly ever die from disease unless they were injured.

 

[Jimbo662]

The stores are not selling you sick fish. They are selling you normal, natural fish as all fish in the sea have parasites as they should. The parasites allow the fish to remain immune. I want parasites to come in on my fish to keep up their natural immunity. If they didn't, I would have to find some parasite to add.
I don't want quarantined fish as they would have no immunity and would always be sick. My fish never get sick and I would not allow them to get sick. I want normal, natural, very healthy, spawning fish with their full compliment of parasites because that's the way fish are supposed to live. If fish die from parasites or other infections, it is our fault, not the store. If we collected our own fish, they would have parasites.

Feed correctly and your fish would never die from these things and we would never have to go on disease threads.
Quarantining and feeding dry or sterile foods will not protect your fish from anything and there is no such thing as quality dry food.

Learn from fish in the sea which eat parasites and diseases with every bite of what they eat which is always fresh, whole fish. Fish in the sea don't hardly ever die from disease unless they were injured.

I'm glad I just found your post. I'm going to be moving in a couple of months and have been trying to figure out a way to set everything up at the new place to go fallow in my DT and treat the fish in another. All of my fish are very healthy and only my PBT shows any sign of ich but is the biggest pig in the tank when it comes time for food. Your post makes complete sense!

 

[Paul B]

Thank you, That is probably the only thing about me that makes sense.

 

[Ghost463]

Another great thread.
Inlike this thead becaise it takes u doen different avenues.
I prefer to not have ich at all of course. But to manage it and allow your fish build stronger immune systems. This is quite an advanced state of thinking.
Personally i treat my qt with mblue almost right away with new fish. This helps prevent anything like ich from comming in at all.
Not to say it's the only way to inharate ich. Thus i just treated my 75g salt. All fish, stone, coral and inverts.
Lost my dragonette and a clownfish during the treatment. The clown was already really far gone from the ich.
Happened over night

 

[Ric365]

hi guys, anyone know how to qt wrasse in copper medication? just like we know if we are not able to add some sand in the qt system..
does it be okay without sand for a long time (2 months), please share with us your experience how to qt wrasse

thnks

 

[Gareth elliott]

hi guys, anyone know how to qt wrasse in copper medication? just like we know if we are not able to add some sand in the qt system..
does it be okay without sand for a long time (2 months), please share with us your experience how to qt wrasse

thnks

A small container of sand can be used for wrasse that bury themselves. Will minimize the absorption.

Not a sand species but my lubbocki went through ttm very well.(was healthy and eating at time of purchase though). Was told by the wrasse experts here wrasse dont do well in the CP i had on hand so went this route.

 

[Victoria M]

You can really only treat a FOWLR with copper & prazi, and it can be problematic to maintain a stable Cu level due to absorption.

All other medications will be rapidly biodegraded out in a mature DT: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/qt-and-biofilm.292878/

Praziquantel is somewhat of an exception, but only because it needs just 2-3 hours in the water to do it's job.

so prazipro vs. praziquentel? what would be the difference? or is there a thread you can direct me to?

 

[Brew12]

so prazipro vs. praziquentel? what would be the difference? or is there a thread you can direct me to?

Praziquental is the active ingredient in Prazipro.

 

[Victoria M]

Praziquental is the active ingredient in Prazipro.

so how is it used differently? just more concentrated? why only a few hours vs. few days? m

 

[Brew12]

so how is it used differently? just more concentrated? why only a few hours vs. few days? m

Both products work in a few hours. As compared to something like CP which needs to stay at high levels for several weeks but will be broken down by the biofilm.

 

[Victoria M]

Both products work in a few hours. As compared to something like CP which needs to stay at high levels for several weeks but will be broken down by the biofilm.

Ok, so I guess I kinda knew that but thought I missed something. You know after my first failures in salwater I found good books then found WWM and figured it out mostly. But in my first tank I had an ich management system going but did not know it. Then did the fallow thing and started QTing "almost" all fish. But I had to figure it out on my own. We are so lucky to have R2R to help us figure it out. I do not recall ever having flukes for example, and my QT process was previously very simple. Now I have read about increased flukes and velvet, and was prepared to treat the fish, but did not think I would actually see it.

 

[Brew12]

Ok, so I guess I kinda knew that but thought I missed something. You know after my first failures in salwater I found good books then found WWM and figured it out mostly. But in my first tank I had an ich management system going but did not know it. Then did the fallow thing and started QTing "almost" all fish. But I had to figure it out on my own. We are so lucky to have R2R to help us figure it out. I do not recall ever having flukes for example, and my QT process was previously very simple. Now I have read about increased flukes and velvet, and was prepared to treat the fish, but did not think I would actually see it.

It's not a good situation right now. While I know how to treat fish and have everything I should need, I still don't want to order more even though my tank is very lightly stocked. People just entering the hobby right now are getting a raw deal imo.