Ich eradication vs. Ich management

[Humblefish]

And it is the same with new born brine shrimp. I hatch them every day and have been for decades. Now please don't tell me that brine shrimp naupli are the sworn enemy of ich parasites and they hunt them down to torture them before roasting them next to my heater, then digging into them with their antlers. I know for many years you have been trying to come up with some way to explain why my fish are immune besides the chicken bone/speedo thing. If the diatom filter theory or brine shrimp thing doesn't pan out you will ask me if there is a Radon gas leak next to my tank or if I collect my water near Love Canal or Chernobyl reactor in Russia. :rolleyes:

http://afs.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1577/1548-8667(1995)007<0257:CCOAOD>2.3.CO;2

Abstract
The potential for using nauplii of brine shrimp Artemia salina to remove the dinoflagellate Amyloodinium ocellatum from aquaculture systems for red drum Sciaenops ocellatus was investigated. Dinospores of A. ocellatum were dispensed in cell culture plates at a concentration of approximately 10,000/mL and were exposed to brine shrimp nauplii at concentrations of l, 2, 4, or 8 nauplii/mL over a 24-h period. 1n the presence of 8 nauplii/mL, dinospores were eliminated in 8 h. In another study, 300,000 dinospores were placed in 3 L of saltwater in two tanks, and l,000 nauplii were added to one tank. After 12 h, three 202-g red drums were placed in both tanks for an additional 12-h-exposure period, after which the fish were euthanized and the trophont load on gill filaments was assessed. Fish from the tank with brine shrimp nauplii had 65% fewer trophonts on their gills than those from the nontreated tank (10.75 versus 3.75 trophonts/filament). These data and the observation that dinospore remains could be observed in naupliar fecal casts suggest the potential value of brine shrimp as a bioremediation measure for this serious gill parasite.

 

[Humblefish]

^^ To the casual reader: Please note the experiments above were done in cell culture plates or in less than 1 gallon of water for the fish test. So, there's no way of knowing if the nauplii would be as effective in a large, "spread out" system and dosing the same concentration of nauplii (1000 per 3 liters) would probably pollute a DT. The resulting ammonia spike would not be worth the possible 65% fewer trophonts.

 

[Empress]

That is true, I forgot to mention how I bang chicken bones together above my tank every night while I am wearing a Speedo and doing the macarana at the same time. That seems to be the key factor as to scarring the ick out of my fish. :cool:

You're scaring more than just your fish! [emoji57]

 

[Paul B]

Ozone. Yes I knew it had to be something other than they are immune. OK, it's ozone, baby brine shrimp, chicken bones and using a diatom filter for an hour a year. There it is folks, the ich remedy. :confused:
It's really the Godzilla Larvae that I hatch and slowly acclimate to my tank. after the parasites see the Godzilla larvae, 65% of them drop dead on the spot while the remaining 35% die laughing. This study was done by Lon Chaney in 1951 in Tokyo because that was the only place to harvest Godzilla Larvae.

Of course you have to be fast because Mama Godzilla runs pretty fast, especially while she is running from jet fighters that are shooting at her.

 

[Humblefish]

Ozone. Yes I knew it had to be something other than they are immune. OK, it's ozone, baby brine shrimp, chicken bones and using a diatom filter for an hour a year. There it is folks, the ich remedy. :confused:

It's a combination of things, Paul. As with almost anything in life, it's never just one factor. ;)

 

[Paul B]

Yes, it is a combination of the right food and exposing them to parasites. Supermodels have nothing to do with it which is odd because Supermodels have a huge part in all of this. :rolleyes:

 

[Fishnerd7]

Great read. Easy for a noob like me to understand. I've saved it and printed it to my notebook. I'm a big fan of prevention to keep my anxiety low. Ha ha. My questions as a new guy for you and all those who read.... Tangs seem to be a problem for aggression, disease and overgrowth in a entry level hobbyists aquarium yet they are one of the most beautiful species. Hippos, powder blues, achiles and a few others...excuse my spelling or nomenclature. Besides clowns you mentioned a few other species that don't spark my interest or get me excited like knowing someone has a tang and asking what kind? Perhaps I'm not seeing the specific species of the wrasses, anthias or others besides mandarin that are eye catchers. Can you mention a few specific strands of the species that might appeal more? Pictures always welcome. Thanks for the great article and tank mentoring.

 

[Humblefish]

@Fishnerd7 Are you wanting to know which fish have thick mucous coats, and are thus considered ich/disease resistant species?

 

[Fishnerd7]

I'm only just learning about the slime coats really. Even after learning about some species and adding them to my wish list I find out they are hard to acquire or require specific care that's not for the beginner. What would you recommend for a 100 gallon tank to slowly add fish to...hardy types yet still appeal to keep not only me interested and anxious to buy the next fish but also keep the wife interested and less like see the price tag. ha ha.

 

[Humblefish]

@Fishnerd7 Have you seen some of the fantastic looking wrasses: http://www.liveaquaria.com/category/1378/wrasse-reef-safe?c=15+1378

Those all have thick slime coats. You can keep Tangs in a 100 gal, just limit it to Zebrasoma or Ctenochaetus genus.

Anthias are another good choice, as well as cardinalfish, grammas, blennies, gobies, hawkfish, rabbitfish and a pair of clowns.

 

[4FordFamily]

@Fishnerd7 Have you seen some of the fantastic looking wrasses: http://www.liveaquaria.com/category/1378/wrasse-reef-safe?c=15+1378

Those all have thick slime coats. You can keep Tangs in a 100 gal, just limit it to Zebrasoma or Ctenochaetus genus.

Anthias are another good choice, as well as cardinalfish, grammas, blennies, gobies, hawkfish, rabbitfish and a pair of clowns.

Agree.

Particularly external parasite-resistant wrasse include halichoeres and macro (leopards) in my experience. With leopards its internal parasites that are the issue. Most common wrasse other than flasher and fairy are pretty resistant to parasites.

 

[Fishnerd7]

Looking these up now. Thank you so much. Unfortunately LFS wants to sell me some giants. It's getting hard to trust them now when I walk in there. I'm relying more and more for support and supplies online.
Thanks again.

 

[4FordFamily]

Looking these up now. Thank you so much. Unfortunately LFS wants to sell me some giants. It's getting hard to trust them now when I walk in there. I'm relying more and more for support and supplies online.
Thanks again.

Limited supply and limited expertise lead to that type of thing at some LFS, unfortunately.

 

[Humblefish]

Limited supply and limited expertise lead to that type of thing at some LFS, unfortunately.

+1 They are going to want to sell whatever they happen to have in stock, first & foremost.

 

[Jose Mayo]

Just to inform, there is a new treatment for Cryptocaryon irritans being developed for aquaculture ... it seems able to eradicate the parasite in the fish at 100% without harm to the fish. Follow the link:

Antiparasitic effect of dietary Romet®30 (SDMX–OMP) against ciliate Cryptocaryon irritans infection in the red sea bream Pagrus majorand tiger puffer Takifugu rubripes

"Highlights
► Romet®30 is Sulfadimethoxine–Ormetoprim (SDMX–OMP) combination. ► In-feed Romet®30 had a therapeutic effect against C. irritans infection. ► The suitable dose of Romet®30 was 50 mg/kg BW/day. ► The suitable duration of administration was 14 consecutive days. ► This dosing condition of Romet®30 was practically useful for aquaculture."

Sulfadimethoxine-Ormetoprim (SDMX-OMP) is a broad-spectrum microbicide chemotherapeutic agent, widely used in the treatment of dogs and cats, now fish ... has the potential to alter the biological filter if used directly in DT. Its possible safe use can be conveyed in food at the doses recommended in this work.

There is no recognized experience, which I have found, of safe use in reef tanks. but I thought it might serve, at first, to treat quarantined fish and ensure they do not carry parasites into the aquarium.

This is the data sheet of the aquaculture specific formula in English: ROMET® 30

Best regards

 

[Humblefish]

@Jose Mayo Has this been tested on more than one strain of Crypto? Seems for most strains I've studied, more than 14 days of consecutive feeding would be required.

 

[Jose Mayo]

@Jose Mayo Has this been tested on more than one strain of Crypto? Seems for most strains I've studied, more than 14 days of consecutive feeding would be required.

I could not answer that; I am also beginning to study this subject, but we know that all Cryptocaryom irritans is a unique species and the action of this drug is on a therapeutic target present in all of them: interferes with folic acid production.

I believe we will only have this answer with experimentation.

Best regards

 

[KMench]

Regarding ich management, although I don’t practice it... I found an interesting article showing cleaner shrimp may actually reduce the population of crypto by consuming the cysts that are laid on the rockwork etc...

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0117723

 

[BigJohnny]

I just sat down and read this whole thread after seeing a spot on a fish in QT, and at one point I thought to myself how hilarious it would be if PaulB was just a straight up troll, or simply lying. Has anyone ever seen his tank in person? Maybe he is senile and doesn't remember constantly replacing dead fish. I'm clearly loopy at this point, so many pages...............

Oh, and what is the deal with this supermodel fixation? BTW @Paul B I saw an episode of Tanked one time where they combined a sound system with an aquarium for a basketball player. You KNOW he blasts some rap on that thing and his fish are therefore, obviously, riddled with ich.

In all seriousness, great stuff guys. Threads like these are the reason I am always reading something on this forum.

 

[Paul B]

I am going out now to replace all my fish because of ich, velvet and mononucleosis. It is tough to do this every week because I want to get the exact same ones. It is especially hard to keep replacing this 26 year old fireclown as I have replaced him 47 times. It is really difficult to get one with those bags under his eyes and the fact that he smiles with his bottom teeth :eek:

PS, I am senile, I got that way from my PTSD and argueing with Humble. :p