Lasses Dream Build

[Lasse]

I have sent in one Triton test and after taking the samples switch to using tap water as top off.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[najer]

Can you get your tap water tested, that would be interesting to see?! ;)
Hope you are feeling better!

 

[Fudsey]

I agree with @najer, whats your tap look like :-)

 

[Lasse]

I have some ideas about it because the parameters from the water treatment plant is known. Gothenburg monitoring the tap water in a very good way. There are figures what´s coming in to the treatment plant, out from it and for 2017 what´s in reality coming out from peoples taps. It has been 686 tests in peoples own taps during 2017. The tests from the treatment plant is taken every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. White columns -> Median; columns to left of the white - min; columns to the right - max.

From the treatment plant 2017 From peoples home 2017

Remarks - some metals can be rather high in peoples home caused by the pipes in the building. For zinc, nickel, chromium and cupper - the median values was acceptable bur there was some max values that was not so good.

I do not know exactly the values in my tap - but in practise - Cu together with Zn is the only I´m worried about.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[najer]

I wish my water was that good, I get just under 300 tds from the tap, don't think I'll use that un filtered! ;)

 

[Lasse]

My TDS from tap water is around 100 ppm. Out from RO around 4-6 ppm if I remember right - I´ll check when I´m home.

Edit: Change from 150 to around 100 because I did a test today that show 95 ppm

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Fudsey]

I'm on a well and out of my tap it's 55-60 tds, after RO 3, but I still burn through DI pretty fast.

 

[Lasse]

Got my latest Triton yesterday - some results this and some that. I stop the experiment with tap water because the result from Triton only showed that sr has gone down rather much since last test. all other results is the same or a little bit higher. will work up the strontium. Cu an Zn has rise a little since last time and calcium has rise a lot. the reason for that is that i have believe that its Core 7 (1) thats contain Ca - but I do not think that for the moment. It must be Core 7(2). if i look at the manual - they say Core 7(2) for Ca - I do not where I got 7(1) from.

I run two Jebao PP/RW - 8 and today I clean one of them for the first time in 2 years - yes I have sponges but they seems to prefer my pumps :). The other one I change a year ago.

The chaeteo has still not show an accelerated growth like before - but neither show signs of dying - it just do not grow as it done before. I dose som iron every day and I will dose Sr. Iodine was good.

PO4 a little too low for my taste - 0.026 and I want 0.06 - 0.1 in order to be safe

I start to dose PO4 nearly two months ago and my Euphyllia has recover and other LPS works better too

Sincerely Lasse

 

[najer]

This is a big change for the system, hope it settles quickly for you. :)

 

[Lasse]

A little update

On my way to fix the low strontium and boron levels. I´m also adding some iron to the system.

Cyanobacteria is one of the most common problems for reef aquarists but most of the time - its benthic cyanobacteria that´s bother us. The type of cyanobacteria that´s common in the sea – Cyanobacteria plankton – could be a very good feeder for many organisms because it’s very small. For one month – I´m going to test to add some of these bacteria plankton to my aquaria. I dose with my GHL doser 2.1 and use the rather new magnetic stirrer in order to mix the cyanobacteria soup before dosing. It’s a good help – I set it to mix 60 seconds before every dosing and for 15 seconds after that.

It looks like the chaeto has start to grow a little - we will see in a week or two.

I have three deresa clams and I want a maxima (blue) too. I order one from my LFS and when they arrived from his supplier – I grab one bag directly. When I was on my way home – I got a text – you grab wrong bag – it was a deresa and it was not blue…..

Well – we will see if I bring it back or not – I already get a WA to keep it and to still try to grab a maxima (blue!) later on.




Sincerely Lasse

 

[Brew12]

Cyanobacteria is one of the most common problems for reef aquarists but most of the time - its benthic cyanobacteria that´s bother us. The type of cyanobacteria that´s common in the sea – Cyanobacteria plankton – could be a very good feeder for many organisms because it’s very small. For one month – I´m going to test to add some of these bacteria plankton to my aquaria. I dose with my GHL doser 2.1 and use the rather new magnetic stirrer in order to mix the cyanobacteria soup before dosing.

If this were posted by anyone else, I would be shocked. Purposely dosing cyanobacteria into your tank. Automatically.

I love this!

 

[Lasse]

It is a different species. This is a plankton species - very small. It can also fixate nitrogen by itself. It can´t (known for me) form mats. The mat building benthic species (including some spirulina sp.) are not able to fixate nitrogen from the air by themselves.

Today it´s believed that this type of bacteria plankton it’s the main resource of nitrogen to the sea and was the origin of what we call life today – long time ago.

Because of its size – its believed to be the staple food for many filtration animals including non-photosynthetic corals.

There has been reports that this cyanobacteria plankton is able to fight the benthic species. If it is true or not – I do not know - I hope that some of us has the possibility test that in the future.

It is a living culture but if I run a skimmer – I´m not sure that they will form a population in my aquaria

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Brew12]

It is a different species. This is a plankton species - very small. It can also fixate nitrogen by itself. It can´t (known for me) form mats. The mat building benthic species (including some spirulina sp.) are not able to fixate nitrogen from the air by themselves.

Today it´s believed that this type of bacteria plankton it’s the main resource of nitrogen to the sea and was the origin of what we call life today – long time ago.

Because of its size – its believed to be the staple food for many filtration animals including non-photosynthetic corals.

There has been reports that this cyanobacteria plankton is able to fight the benthic species. If it is true or not – I do not know - I hope that some of us has the possibility test that in the future.

It is a living culture but if I run a skimmer – I´m not sure that they will form a population in my aquaria

Sincerely Lasse

I've speculated that the planktonic species of cyanobacteria would be impossible to keep out of our systems and that they are in them in reduced quantities. I am interested to see how your system responds to adding it in larger doses than would normally occur in our systems.

Do you expect to see a drop in NO3 from adding this?

 

[Sallstrom]

I've speculated that the planktonic species of cyanobacteria would be impossible to keep out of our systems and that they are in them in reduced quantities. I am interested to see how your system responds to adding it in larger doses than would normally occur in our systems.

Do you expect to see a drop in NO3 from adding this?

We've started dosing Synechococcus sp yesterday in a frag tank at work(actually exactly the same batch as Lasse :D). I will run it as an experiment to see if it's possible to keep Dendronephtya sp alive and well for a longer period. But we also have a lot of other corals in the same tank, maybe Acropora for example will respond in a good way too, we'll see.
Have a look at my build thread for more info about that experiment.

Sorry @Lasse for borrowing your thread to do advertising for my own thread ;)
Btw, your Gorgonia is still not happy. Haven't expanded the polyps yet. Do you remember what species it is?

/ David

 

[Lasse]

Sorry @Lasse for borrowing your thread to do advertising for my own thread ;)
Btw, your Gorgonia is still not happy. Haven't expanded the polyps yet. Do you remember what species it is?

/ David

Your welcome - its no problem. :)

Lophogorgia nodulifera was it bought as

Do you expect to see a drop in NO3 from adding this?

Not directly drop but if it works the whole cycle - the need of adding NO3 will not be as large as now. Theory - the bacteria plankton fix nitrogen. - corals and other filtrating animals eat the plankton - surplus nitrogen out in the water as NH4/NH3 - some of this will be in the nitrification process - making NO3 and som will be consumed as NH4/NH3 directly by organisms using photosynthesis - like macro-, microalgae and zooxanthella.

 

[najer]

Your welcome - its no problem. :)

Lophogorgia nodulifera was it bought as



Not directly drop but if it works the whole cycle - the need of adding NO3 will not be as large as now. Theory - the bacteria plankton fix nitrogen. - corals and other filtrating animals eat the plankton - surplus nitrogen out in the water as NH4/NH3 - some of this will be in the nitrification process - making NO3 and som will be consumed as NH4/NH3 directly by organisms using photosynthesis - like macro-, microalgae and zooxanthella.

You know I am loving this, the theory makes so much sense!
Watching as always! :)

 

[Lasse]

Some like cyanobacteria plankton

In the morning

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The same coral - in the evening!

​

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

Good morning

As I suspect - the skimmer that´s adjusted to give good aeration but no skimate has change its way of working. Now its give a skimate - deep blue-green.

Basically - I´m a no skimmer guy but with age - I have change to be a guy that use a good skimmer in order to aerate and make a good gas exchange but skim very, very dry. Now - I´ll have a conflict with myself. I do not have any oxygen probe in my aquarium - the ones that´s available are rathe expansive or rather difficult to handle. GHL has one that´s work but its not cheap and need an expansion card and my P4 is already filled up with expansion cards - it means that I need an expansion box too - more cost.

However - my skimmer has a DC pump with the possibility to use 1-10 V in order to manage the speed. It means that I would be able to run the pump in low speed during daytime (or stop it) and higher speed during night time (lower photosynthesis - lower internal oxygen production) I could use the pH swing too because its also depended of the photosynthesis.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Nowell]

I like the low speed idea. I worry about several hundred mls of anaerobic nastiness brewing when people turn their skimmer >off< during the day.

 

[Lasse]

From this thread

Hi Lasse!

After growing chaeto really well in our sump for the last few months, I noticed our sump a couple weeks ago looking way too clean, and the chaeto was not growing as rapidly as it did before.

I set the Apex to turn off our Reef Octopus Classic 202-s throughout the day, and back on when main lights are turned down. I also removed the filter sock. So when I feed drops of phyto a couple mornings per week, I’m glad to not have red skimmate sitting in the skimmer’s collection cup, anymore.

So, all this just to build up nutrients so my chaeto will look happy again? It just seems so weird that I’m not rejoicing at the ultra-clean tank.

I decided to answer in my build thread instead - the answer
​

Normally the most common limited substances for Chaeto (and most other primary producers - the one using inorganic substances for living) is inorganic C, P,N and K. But it is not always the case - there is a lot of other elements in one or another inorganic form that can limit the growth. Iron, Iodine, Bromine, Strontium and Boron are other elements that´s can be critical for macroalgae growth. I use the word "elements". In Swedish - there is a certain word for the basic (single atom substances you find in the periodic system) elements (grundämnen) - I can´t find this in English but it is the basic elements I am talking about - not different chemical compounds.

Inorganic Carbon - C - is a little bit confusing in saltwater. In freshwater aquaria – it is one of the most limited compounds for plant growth – it is probably the same in saltwater - but the inorganic C compound with the lowest energy cost for the primary producers - CO2 - can be limited in a saltwater system - especially if the pH > 8.2. However - saltwater is rich in other inorganic C compounds like HCO3 and CO3. The problem with this is that it cost energy because they need to be transformed to pure CO2 before the primary producer can use it in the photosynthesis process. This transformation need a special enzyme - and it cost energy to produce and use it. Energy that´s need to be taken from the growth process. Of course - most primary producers in saltwater can use HCO3 and/or CO3 as source for inorganic C (transformed to CO2 in one or another external/internal process). This does not mean that they can´t take up pure CO2 directly - they can and my strong believe is that they do that if there is sufficient amount of free CO2 in the water (lower pH than 8.1 - 8.2 (I have no evidences for just this pH, but my experiences indicate this). It means - in theory - that lower pH (more CO2 in the water) can give a higher growth rate because the primary producer does not need to take energy to convert HCO3/CO3 to CO2. Some growth experiences in different pH that has been done at The Maritime Museum in Gothenburg with S.hystrix indicate this too. pH around 8 - 8.1 give a better growth rate compared with pH over and below. Note - the growth rate was calculated from weight - it includes produced limestone - not only soft tissue. This was in one experiment, with one coral - I´m not saying that this is a general conclusion. However - with some calcifying phytoplankton in the sea - it has shown that they have risen their biomass today compared with the biomass decades away then it was a higher pH in the sea. I can´t find the references now but it was published some years ago and surprised the researchers. To the bottom line - I do not believe that you in a normal saltwater aquarium need to worry about free CO2 levels.

The biological input for you P is normally your food and that you add living things to the aquarium. Sometimes – there could be metal bounded PO4 in stones and sand you introduce to your aquarium. Excluding metal bounded PO4 – the input is always as organic P. The transformer of the organic P of all types to inorganic PO4 (orthophosphate) is the bacterial decomposition of organic matter (faecal matter, dead algae, dead corals, dead fish and other organisms)

The biological “output” for P is production of new living matter through photosynthesis. Total P will therefore always rise in a healthy aquarium if you do not export living matter like macroalgae. The trick with low PO4 in a biological driven system is to keep the organic pool as high as possible and harvest from that. This means that – as many people see nowadays – inorganic P can be limited in a way that it limits the growth of the system.

The input for N (as organic) is with one exception through food and adding living things to the system. The conversion to inorganic N will follow the same pathway as for organic N to inorganic P by bacteria but the primary compound produced by bacterial decomposition is NH3/NH4. This is further – sometimes – transformed by a total different bacterial family (compared with decomposition bacteria) – the nitrification bacteria – to NO3

There is another pathway for N into our aquarium – it is the nitrogen fixation of N2 to NH4 and further to organic N by cyanobacteria. This pathway is normally not used by aquarist today but maybe it will be the next “hot” thing.

The output of N from the system is however very complicated. NH4 will in higher pH be transformed to NH3 (a gas) in some extend. This will leave the system through aeration (read gas exchange and effective skimmers). The inorganic N transformed to NH3 will be converted (of many different bacterial communities) to N2 in anaerobic environment – the most known process is denitrification. It’s the most known process but maybe its not the most common. In nature – the anammox process maybe be the most importance process.

Shortly – the “input” nitrogen not lost to the air will be used as inorganic nitrogen in the primary production. Its also indicate – in a biological driven system – that in the long run – it will be shortage of N for the primary production (read photosynthesis)

Especially with a refugium – there has been shown that the ration between P and N in macroalgae can be as high as 1-80 – it means that the demand for N is huge in a well planted refugium. My strongest believe is that in the long run – all aquaria driven by biological methods will show a shortage (limitation) of N. You need to dose!

Potassium has been discussed many times and my believes is - it is not a major concern for aquarium without zeolites and refugium. Zeolites will bind K and macro algae seems to consume a lot. I can see a down going effect in my aquarium if I do not dose.

Iron – maybe the most common limited factor. Can be used – in the short run - if you have an algae problem in the DT – just strip your water from iron. In the future – I will add some in my top off water and stop when my Triton test detect iron.

Iodine – have been discussed a lot. For me – the fact that macroalgae content rather much iodine is enough for me to believe that it is needed and in an aquarium without WC – it will sooner or later hit the zero level. If you need to maintain the natural concentration or not – that’s another question – but if you hit the zero level – you will probably have problem with your macro algae. Input is food – especially food contenting nori- output is growth of biomass and volatile iodocarbons from macro and other algae.

Bromine has not been discussed very much but it’s a halogen and together with iodine it is important for forming inorganic antioxidants in algae - Algae is also know for releasing bromoform (a Trihalomethane) to the atmosphere.

According to the importance of Strontium and Boron to grow macroalgae – there is not so much information to gain from the web – but one of the things I seen in scientific articles indicate that uptake rate was determined by the concentration in the water – therefore I try to have the concentration of these two trace elements at the same concentration as in the sea.

Sincerely Lasse