Looking for stability with hobby grade test kits

[reef’r]

So I posted on here a few days ago because I stopped into my local lfs and was asking them for some pointers pertaining to, what I feel, is slow growth in many of my corals. Long story short they recommended switching salts from RC to Red Sea pro reef salt. I bought the salt but was reluctant to switch so I came here and posted asking the same question and the general consensus was salt was not the issue but maybe elsewhere such as params. So I went to testing for which I use Hannah for dkh and phosphate (ulr checker) and remainder of my test are salifert. I will post my readings below and the readings I got from the lfs when I went back to return the salt. DKH and phos readings were wildly different, they also read a higher mag than me and a reading of 1.023 sg vs my reading of 1.026. Obviously the readings left me perplexed. Is it my testing and or test kits that are off, or is it the lfs test kits and testing practices? My readings have always been consistent, I don’t get 10DKH one day and then 7.1 the next my DKH has been consistently testing between 7-7.5. So what gives? My tank looks good, all corals are fluffy, SPS polyp extension is great, I have no complaints except growth rate. So I’m left confused kinda, do I just keep going with my own flow and disregard the lfs readings and recommendations, do I implant maybe monthly ICP, how do you compensate and make changes with the differences found in hobby grade test kits, what do you trust?

my test is daylight, LFS is blue light

 

[KrisReef]

The good news is that your testing method reportedly gives similar results.
The corals are reported to be happy.

How long have you been trying to grow coral? They grow slowly at first and later they might take off. Some folks, the guys who are revered in the hobby will tell you over a beer this; " I could never get this one coral to grow, it just sat there in my tank, didn't die, didn't grow, just stayed alive."

To evaluate your testing ability, you would need to repeat testing the same tank for your parameters 3x and post those numbers.

If the corals are happy, then your "numbers" or "parameters" are good enough. Waiting for the coral to grow, sometimes it is best to take a vacation and pray that nothing goes sideways while you are gone. On return, you will likely notice growth.

 

[purpfish]

Woah ur lfs is really blue:oops:

 

[carri10]

If we are just talking alk, as that is the one that seems most strange to you, I have always found my hanna to read about 1dKH above my KHDirector. As to which is correct, I don’t know.
You can buy hanna calibration kits for alk. I have one and it works well.
More importantly is the age of the reagent. If it is old and frequently exposed to the air, it will go off. Check that.

If growth is the only problem, check trace, but remember it is not linear. I have several corals that were static for a while and then took off.
Also small frags grow slower than larger. Non nutrient limited growth will be some what exponential.

I highly doubt it is salt.

I use hanna for alk and po4, salifèret for the rest. It seems the general hobby consensus these are the best ones.

You don’t mention pH

Finally, is that your calcium at 330ppm? That is the first place I’d look.

 

[reef’r]

The good news is that your testing method reportedly gives similar results.
The corals are reported to be happy.

How long have you been trying to grow coral? They grow slowly at first and later they might take off. Some folks, the guys who are revered in the hobby will tell you over a beer this; " I could never get this one coral to grow, it just sat there in my tank, didn't die, didn't grow, just stayed alive."

To evaluate your testing ability, you would need to repeat testing the same tank for your parameters 3x and post those numbers.

If the corals are happy, then your "numbers" or "parameters" are good enough. Waiting for the coral to grow, sometimes it is best to take a vacation and pray that nothing goes sideways while you are gone. On return, you will likely notice growth.

Yeah staring at the tank everyday doesn’t help. I’m more or less basing my opinions on my growth compared to others that post 3-6 month growth shots. Tank is 13 months old

 

[reef’r]

If we are just talking alk, as that is the one that seems most strange to you, I have always found my hanna to read about 1dKH above my KHDirector. As to which is correct, I don’t know.
You can buy hanna calibration kits for alk. I have one and it works well.
More importantly is the age of the reagent. If it is old and frequently exposed to the air, it will go off. Check that.

If growth is the only problem, check trace, but remember it is not linear. I have several corals that were static for a while and then took off.
Also small frags grow slower than larger. Non nutrient limited growth will be some what exponential.

I highly doubt it is salt.

I use hanna for alk and po4, salifèret for the rest. It seems the general hobby consensus these are the best ones.

You don’t mention pH

Finally, is that your calcium at 330ppm? That is the first place I’d look.

I routinely test PH around 8.1 but I’m usually testing later in the day I know at night it’s dropping off, I am dosing kalk but a small amount at 50ml daily. Yes my calc reading was 330, lfs got 410

 

[CHSUB]

I would research the SG, lfs vs you, and correct the value if needed, everything else is within hobby testing error, imo. Grow is nearly impossible to gauge…not a believer changing salt will affect growth.

 

[reef’r]

Edit I do run brs ROX .08 24/7 at 4tbs for ~30 gallons tank volume

 

[Sawacoral]

I feel like I didn't see any significant growth over a year until I started dosing Mg. My numbers were around 1150-1200...now closer to 1300-1350 with dosing every few days.

 

[SteveMM62Reef]

I get good results with any salts I use. When I mix in 30 gallons of RO/DI water, I only put half of the salt in. Mix with a Danner Magdrive Pump. When that salt is dissolved, add another quarter of the salt. When that is dissolved, I start bringing the Salinity up to my specs. Also when I get too much Calcium buildup, I acid wash the Brute Container.

 

[Rhetoric]

the guys who are revered in the hobby will tell you over a beer this; " I could never get this one coral to grow, it just sat there in my tank, didn't die, didn't grow, just stayed alive."

This is the nicest way I've seen it said. You don't see it a lot however. The dirty little secret of this hobby.

Coral grow slow. Sorry to bring you in on it with the bluntness but I repeat... CORALS GROW SLOW.

The "fast" growing corals are labeled "beginners" Honestly to the detriment of the hobby. They still take months and months to grow. Xenia doesn't take over a aquarium in 90 days. A wall of mushrooms can take years. If toadstools grow so fast why doesn't everyone have huge toads?

I'd advise tempering expectations. Everytime you see the "take your time" , "nothing good happens fast" , "patience is king in marine" apply your new found knowledge (grow slow remembtoadstool?

If you can hear this, you will save yourself a TON of frustration and just as important MONEY. Nobody has a bottle/bucket/dropper that's going to make your aquarium full of coral in a year.

It just takes time. Learn to enjoy the slow ride

 

[exnisstech]

My SPS didn't do much of anything untill after the one year mark. I switched from ESV 2part to AFR about the same time and corals started growing. I don't know if it was the switch to AFR, tank maturity or a combo of both. I just turned my second year and am seeing what to me is very good growth but I'm not into fragging so maybe my growth wouldn't be considered good to someone who frags. My pH is low at 7.6 with a peak of 7.8-7.9 and my sticks don't seem to mind. I can get a peak of 8.1-8.2 in the summer when the windows are open. I run IO purple bucket salt. Ive found the best way to see growth is with pictures. Watching coral grow is about the same as watching grass grow lol.

EDIT: wanted to add I've never had someone else test my water. I find it easier to stick with one device unless I'm getting some really strange reading then I'll test with a different kit but it rarely happens unless I just botch a test. Stability is more important than an actual number is advice I've found works for me.

Around March 2023

Today 2+ yrs after start up.

Its a marathon not a sprint that's for sure. I have a Pink Floyd acro that hasn't even fully encrusted the plug and it's been over 1.5 yrs .

 

[reef’r]

My SPS didn't do much of anything untill after the one year mark. I switched from ESV 2part to AFR about the same time and corals started growing. I don't know if it was the switch to AFR, tank maturity or a combo of both. I just turned my second year and am seeing what to me is very good growth but I'm not into fragging so maybe my growth wouldn't be considered good to someone who frags. My pH is low at 7.6 with a peak of 7.8-7.9 and my sticks don't seem to mind. I can get a peak of 8.1-8.2 in the summer when the windows are open. I run IO purple bucket salt. Ive found the best way to see growth is with pictures. Watching coral grow is about the same as watching grass grow lol.

Around March 2023

Today 2+ yrs after start up.

Its a marathon not a sprint that's for sure. I have a Pink Floyd acro that hasn't even fully encrusted the plug and it's been over 1.5 yrs .

Beautiful tank I’ve watched your builds on here quite a bit. My main frustration over the past couple of days has definitely come from differences in testing but you know what I’m just going to stick with what’s constant for me and watch the tank for sings of things off. Maybe my expectations for 1 year were not realistic

 

[exnisstech]

My first year on the above tank was pretty rough. I didn't even keep track of my losses :crying-face:

 

[ReneReef]

Beautiful tank I’ve watched your builds on here quite a bit. My main frustration over the past couple of days has definitely come from differences in testing but you know what I’m just going to stick with what’s constant for me and watch the tank for sings of things off. Maybe my expectations for 1 year were not realistic

Your frustration is reality, so welcome in the real wold. Home test kits are not that accurate and inter operator error is also quite high. Comparing results of different tests and testers (people performing the test) is only confusing.

Luckily you can easily deal with reality by getting references for your tests.
That way you check the measurement error of you (everybody had one) and your test. That way you know how inaccurate your test results are and correct the result for the deviation of the testkit.
Repeating the same test several times on the same sample would show you the precision of your test.

Alternatively, send in an ICP sample to a good quality company (imo ATI or Oceamo) and do your tests at the same moment you take the ICP sample. Then you can use the ICP results as reference.

 

[Sawacoral]

I will add that I use a sub-lab grade pipetter when measuring out liquids. You can get disposable pipette heads for dirt cheap (I usually wash and sterilize a dozen times before they wear out). I feel this takes out some of the margin of error when filling cuvettes and trying to line up the meniscus- my eyes suck. As long as you have a gram scale and can occasionally calibrate your pipetter.

 

[Justdrew]

Edit I do run brs ROX .08 24/7 at 4tbs for ~30 gallons tank volume

I feel that’s too much ROX for that volume. When I ran the recommended amount SPS were stagnant, receding, etc. ICP showed all traces being stripped. I cut back to 1-2 Tbsp for 50 gallons and the levels started to correct themselves. ROX is very aggressive.

 

[RelaxingWithTheReef]

There are a lot of options and opinions regarding testing, but after verification, I am satisfied these suggestions are pretty good.

Alk – 7.2 / 9.3
This is a concern. Hanna is a good tester, but the reagent can have problems. Suggest verifying with the Salifert Kh/Alk test. Very reliable and it’s also inexpensive.

Phosphate – 0.17 / 0.23
The Hanna ULR checker is generally trusted, but accuracy below 0.050 ppm can be a little sketchy. While the level is a little higher than I run with SPS, this difference is not much of a concern.

Mag – 1100 / 1200
While a little low, this is likely not the problem.

Calcium – 330 / 410
This is a significant difference. Suggest the Red Sea Calcium Pro test.

SG – 1.026 (35ppt) / 1.023 (31ppt)
This is a significant difference. Suggest the Tropic Marin High Precision Hydrometer. Additionally, for a quick test you can also use the Hanna HI98319 Marine Salinity Tester with fresh calibration solution. But there can be issues with the calibration solution, so the tester should be verified to the TM hydrometer.

Nitrate – 10 / 10
Congratulations

pH – 8.0
No concern

To improve your growth I would suggest keeping all of your parameters as stable as possible, especially alk, nitrate, and phosphate. Younger tanks have a tendency to resist these efforts. For SPS, swings of nitrate and phosphate can immediately shut down SPS growth, and even damage the coral. There are many ways to control nutrients, and I ultimately converted to carbon dosing for precise control. It took a little time, but the corals improved significantly.

You can do a series of water changes to reset things, and then I would suggest dosing trace elements. Tropic Marin AK is a good start. If you decide to perform an ICP test, I suggest the Oceamo ICP-MS test so you can see if the tank is depleted of critical elements like Fe, Co, Mn, Cr, Zn. The standard ICP test will report 0, and say the results are “Good”. But unfortunately the test is simply not sensitive enough to make that "Good" determination. Its only able to detect an overdose.

You mentioned you use ROX. I also use ROX, but 4 tablespoons (59 mL) for 30 gallons is significantly over the recommended dosage of 15 mL per 10 gallons. This is very potent GAC, and can strip the tank of different things like trace elements and organics causing problems. After some bad experiences, I only use ¼ - ½ dose, and change it every month or two.

 

[reef’r]

There are a lot of options and opinions regarding testing, but after verification, I am satisfied these suggestions are pretty good.

Alk – 7.2 / 9.3
This is a concern. Hanna is a good tester, but the reagent can have problems. Suggest verifying with the Salifert Kh/Alk test. Very reliable and it’s also inexpensive.

Phosphate – 0.17 / 0.23
The Hanna ULR checker is generally trusted, but accuracy below 0.050 ppm can be a little sketchy. While the level is a little higher than I run with SPS, this difference is not much of a concern.

Mag – 1100 / 1200
While a little low, this is likely not the problem.

Calcium – 330 / 410
This is a significant difference. Suggest the Red Sea Calcium Pro test.

SG – 1.026 (35ppt) / 1.023 (31ppt)
This is a significant difference. Suggest the Tropic Marin High Precision Hydrometer. Additionally, for a quick test you can also use the Hanna HI98319 Marine Salinity Tester with fresh calibration solution. But there can be issues with the calibration solution, so the tester should be verified to the TM hydrometer.

Nitrate – 10 / 10
Congratulations

pH – 8.0
No concern

To improve your growth I would suggest keeping all of your parameters as stable as possible, especially alk, nitrate, and phosphate. Younger tanks have a tendency to resist these efforts. For SPS, swings of nitrate and phosphate can immediately shut down SPS growth, and even damage the coral. There are many ways to control nutrients, and I ultimately converted to carbon dosing for precise control. It took a little time, but the corals improved significantly.

You can do a series of water changes to reset things, and then I would suggest dosing trace elements. Tropic Marin AK is a good start. If you decide to perform an ICP test, I suggest the Oceamo ICP-MS test so you can see if the tank is depleted of critical elements like Fe, Co, Mn, Cr, Zn. The standard ICP test will report 0, and say the results are “Good”. But unfortunately the test is simply not sensitive enough to make that "Good" determination. Its only able to detect an overdose.

You mentioned you use ROX. I also use ROX, but 4 tablespoons (59 mL) for 30 gallons is significantly over the recommended dosage of 15 mL per 10 gallons. This is very potent GAC, and can strip the tank of different things like trace elements and organics causing problems. After some bad experiences, I only use ¼ - ½ dose, and change it every month or two.

Great info thank you, I pulled the carbon and do think I will start implementing some tropic Marin a- and k+. Also, think I may have found a big contributor to some of my issues, pulled one of my heaters from the tank this morning to warm up some saltwater and it had a nice crack in the glass and rust building up. Gotta love it, should have took a look at stuff like this long ago

 

[Pod_01]

I pulled the carbon

I do prefer to use GAC (ROX 0.8) but for your tank I would use one tablespoon and change 1/2 every 2 weeks. I run my in a bag, so it is less aggressive vs. reactor.
GAC can help with coral warfare and other things that may end up in the water…