My Trident Review

[mitch91175]

It does, the bottom of the trident sits at the very top of the sump and the water line is 6 inches or so below the top of the sump.



alright, so I had to wait to get to my computer.

This is the pump that feed's my calcium reactor.

it actually doesn't feed, it pulls. I have a line in the sump that pulls water through and goes into the cal rx. it then does it thing with the c02 and recirculates and what not then comes out of the reactor. It then hits my pump which is basically "pulling" the water through the calcium reactor. It's creating a vacuum in some ways and pulling water through the reactor. it then dumps it into my sump.

Hopefully all that made sense.

This is how I have the pump configured to 100ml it will ALWAYS pull. Whether it's pulling just normal water or water that's been injected with c02. it won't matter. the pump will always stay on.

This is the Co2 Regulator & CalRx that I have. A CarbonDoser.com Regulator and a GEO Dual Chamber 12" module.

as you can see I also have a PH monitor in the Calcium Reactor. The Carbon Doser is connected to an EB832 Power Bar.

Cal_PH is the Probe inside the reactor which measures the PH
CalRX_C02 is the Carbon Doser Regulator
CalRX_Doser is the Kamoer Pump which pulls water through the reactor
CalRX is the actual recirculating pump on the reactor that mixes up the co2/water to get the media to dissolve.

CalRx_Doser is the Kamoer Pump which is ALWAYS ON
CalRx which is the recirculating pump which is ALWAYS ON

CalRx_C02 is programmed like this

Which basically tells the EB bar to TURN OFF the CarbonDoser when reactor PH is lower than 7.00 and TURN on the reactor when its higher than 7.10. I keep the PH higher in the reactor but low enough to still melt the media. I keep it higher because the Kamoer is moving more water and faster. You could program it like this or how normal people program it and keep the PH at 6.6 or 6.8 and have it dripping. I keep it with a steady flow going through it. So whats the difference?

So whats it come down to? You can have less water go through the reactor at a lower PH and have it dripping to where you count drops per every 10 seconds or something and keep the PH 6.6 or something extremely low

OR

you can have a stream flowing through it and keep the PH a bit higher so that it still melts the media but its having a lot more flow go through it.

Ultimately, the media still melts. I just don't have many PH issues this way compared to dropping water with PH of 6.6 into my sump. Everyone does it different and to each their own.

NOW, WITH THE TRIDENT. The trident is just another module, just like any. which has sensors.

So you can just tell it to turn the carbon doser (c02) ON if your ALK is LOWER then 9 for instance, and to turn OFF the carbon doser regulator (c02) when it gets higher then 9.10. I'm sure you can narrow the parameters to 9.05 or 9.10 but I just stuck those in there for reference. The beauty about the carbon doser is that it's electric. So if it doesn't have power, it won't be injecting anything. So you just kill it when you don't want it injecting C02. When it turns off just the regulator, no c02 is being injected at all, so whats the kamoer doing? Just wasting it's time flowing water through the calcium reactor lol, and thats ultimately fine. its just moving sump water at its normal PH. when it detects your alk higher than the value you want, it will turn on.

I WOULDN'T recommend you running it with just 4 tests a day at first. I would run it at 24 tests a day first until I dial it in completely,. its practically the same code for auto dosing, you tell the DOS to dose when ALKx30 is lower then a certain point and to stop when its higher than a certain point. The same thing with auto dosing, you have to fine tune it. Set your trident to run a test every hour until you find you numbers which will be specific to your tank. (it says 30 because it came up as Module 30 on my apex, yours could be ALKx5, ALKx6, etc, depending on how many modules you have)

I currently have it programmed with the PH code but will be playing with the ALK code tomorrow,

so here you can tell that my ALK was 9.63 with a high point of 9.73 coming back to 9.71 at the end, so it moved roughly .08. Which I'm cool with. I pulled a good bit of frags out and typically try to keep it 9 on the dot but now I will just go back and make some minor changes and it slowly come back down to where I want it.

Hopefully all the crap i said makes some sense....

Anyway, everyone does it differently. not everyone is alike. Others might be doing what I do, others might look down upon it. others might not care. Everyones different and we can all do it differently and thats the beauty of this hobby. not the same thing works for everyone.

everyone is different.

Are you find yet that you have to dose calcium/magnesium even running the CaRx from time to time with your pH being between 7-7.1?

 

[mitch91175]

I am already preparing for once I finally do get the Trident. Made my changes to my CaRx pH in the chamber to increase at night and decrease during the day:

CARX_PH_HI runs during the night
CARX_PH_LO runs during the day

 

[ReeferBud]

It does, the bottom of the trident sits at the very top of the sump and the water line is 6 inches or so below the top of the sump.



alright, so I had to wait to get to my computer.

This is the pump that feed's my calcium reactor.

it actually doesn't feed, it pulls. I have a line in the sump that pulls water through and goes into the cal rx. it then does it thing with the c02 and recirculates and what not then comes out of the reactor. It then hits my pump which is basically "pulling" the water through the calcium reactor. It's creating a vacuum in some ways and pulling water through the reactor. it then dumps it into my sump.

Hopefully all that made sense.

This is how I have the pump configured to 100ml it will ALWAYS pull. Whether it's pulling just normal water or water that's been injected with c02. it won't matter. the pump will always stay on.

This is the Co2 Regulator & CalRx that I have. A CarbonDoser.com Regulator and a GEO Dual Chamber 12" module.

as you can see I also have a PH monitor in the Calcium Reactor. The Carbon Doser is connected to an EB832 Power Bar.

Cal_PH is the Probe inside the reactor which measures the PH
CalRX_C02 is the Carbon Doser Regulator
CalRX_Doser is the Kamoer Pump which pulls water through the reactor
CalRX is the actual recirculating pump on the reactor that mixes up the co2/water to get the media to dissolve.

CalRx_Doser is the Kamoer Pump which is ALWAYS ON
CalRx which is the recirculating pump which is ALWAYS ON

CalRx_C02 is programmed like this

Which basically tells the EB bar to TURN OFF the CarbonDoser when reactor PH is lower than 7.00 and TURN on the reactor when its higher than 7.10. I keep the PH higher in the reactor but low enough to still melt the media. I keep it higher because the Kamoer is moving more water and faster. You could program it like this or how normal people program it and keep the PH at 6.6 or 6.8 and have it dripping. I keep it with a steady flow going through it. So whats the difference?

So whats it come down to? You can have less water go through the reactor at a lower PH and have it dripping to where you count drops per every 10 seconds or something and keep the PH 6.6 or something extremely low

OR

you can have a stream flowing through it and keep the PH a bit higher so that it still melts the media but its having a lot more flow go through it.

Ultimately, the media still melts. I just don't have many PH issues this way compared to dropping water with PH of 6.6 into my sump. Everyone does it different and to each their own.

NOW, WITH THE TRIDENT. The trident is just another module, just like any. which has sensors.

So you can just tell it to turn the carbon doser (c02) ON if your ALK is LOWER then 9 for instance, and to turn OFF the carbon doser regulator (c02) when it gets higher then 9.10. I'm sure you can narrow the parameters to 9.05 or 9.10 but I just stuck those in there for reference. The beauty about the carbon doser is that it's electric. So if it doesn't have power, it won't be injecting anything. So you just kill it when you don't want it injecting C02. When it turns off just the regulator, no c02 is being injected at all, so whats the kamoer doing? Just wasting it's time flowing water through the calcium reactor lol, and thats ultimately fine. its just moving sump water at its normal PH. when it detects your alk higher than the value you want, it will turn on.

I WOULDN'T recommend you running it with just 4 tests a day at first. I would run it at 24 tests a day first until I dial it in completely,. its practically the same code for auto dosing, you tell the DOS to dose when ALKx30 is lower then a certain point and to stop when its higher than a certain point. The same thing with auto dosing, you have to fine tune it. Set your trident to run a test every hour until you find you numbers which will be specific to your tank. (it says 30 because it came up as Module 30 on my apex, yours could be ALKx5, ALKx6, etc, depending on how many modules you have)

I currently have it programmed with the PH code but will be playing with the ALK code tomorrow,

so here you can tell that my ALK was 9.63 with a high point of 9.73 coming back to 9.71 at the end, so it moved roughly .08. Which I'm cool with. I pulled a good bit of frags out and typically try to keep it 9 on the dot but now I will just go back and make some minor changes and it slowly come back down to where I want it.

Hopefully all the crap i said makes some sense....

Anyway, everyone does it differently. not everyone is alike. Others might be doing what I do, others might look down upon it. others might not care. Everyones different and we can all do it differently and thats the beauty of this hobby. not the same thing works for everyone.

everyone is different.

Thanks for the detailed explanation! I’m also running a CaRx on a large sps system and thinking about how to best program it with the Trident as well (don’t have one yet but strongly considering it)

If I may offer an alternative thought (like you said, there’s many ways to do it), instead of turning on/off your CO2 solenoid based on Alk, why not turn your feed (kamoer pump) on/off based on Alk?

I’ve been thinking about the two options as well and when you keep the flow through the reactor constant and turn off the CO2, you’re still adding quite a bit of volume of water from the reactor that has a high alkalinity, thus continuing to add Alk to your tank beyond your high set point.

In recirculating reactors like a CaRx, it’s beneficial to keep the main chamber in equilibrium by keeping the pH in the range you want it and maintain the balance of Ca and CO3 ions in the solution. Otherwise, it’s just introducing a greater “lag” in the response after the controller changes the CO2 solenoid command.

If you instead just turn off the flow through the reactor (again I’m referring to the kamoer pump, not the recirculating pump), then you instantly stop adding Alk to your tank when you want to, and you instantly start adding Alk when you want to based on the Trident’s result. Important to note that in recirculating reactors, it will take some time for the water inside the main chamber to reach equilibrium of Ca and CO3 ions if the pH has gotten too high to stop dissolving the media, again generating a greater lag in the response.

Since the main reason to get a Trident is for Alk stability, for us CaRx users, my thinking is that controlling based on flow through the reactor is a better proposition than controlling pH. BRS did a video that demonstrated the effect of flow through a CaRx which explains this effect.

Open to counter ideas!

On a separate note, how do you have the feed line of the kamoer pump connected to your system? Does it run off a pressurized manifold or does the line basically sit in the sump? I’m thinking of getting one as well.

 

[mitch91175]

Thanks for the detailed explanation! I’m also running a CaRx on a large sps system and thinking about how to best program it with the Trident as well (don’t have one yet but strongly considering it)

If I may offer an alternative thought (like you said, there’s many ways to do it), instead of turning on/off your CO2 solenoid based on Alk, why not turn your feed (kamoer pump) on/off based on Alk?

I’ve been thinking about the two options as well and when you keep the flow through the reactor constant and turn off the CO2, you’re still adding quite a bit of volume of water from the reactor that has a high alkalinity, thus continuing to add Alk to your tank beyond your high set point.

In recirculating reactors like a CaRx, it’s beneficial to keep the main chamber in equilibrium by keeping the pH in the range you want it and maintain the balance of Ca and CO3 ions in the solution. Otherwise, it’s just introducing a greater “lag” in the response after the controller changes the CO2 solenoid command.

If you instead just turn off the flow through the reactor (again I’m referring to the kamoer pump, not the recirculating pump), then you instantly stop adding Alk to your tank when you want to, and you instantly start adding Alk when you want to based on the Trident’s result. Important to note that in recirculating reactors, it will take some time for the water inside the main chamber to reach equilibrium of Ca and CO3 ions if the pH has gotten too high to stop dissolving the media, again generating a greater lag in the response.

Since the main reason to get a Trident is for Alk stability, for us CaRx users, my thinking is that controlling based on flow through the reactor is a better proposition than controlling pH. BRS did a video that demonstrated the effect of flow through a CaRx which explains this effect.

Open to counter ideas!

On a separate note, how do you have the feed line of the kamoer pump connected to your system? Does it run off a pressurized manifold or does the line basically sit in the sump? I’m thinking of getting one as well.

Controlling based upon flow would be great, but the biggest challenge is that we cannot adjust the flow besides on/off via Apex.

 

[ReeferBud]

Very true, variable controllable dosing would be ideal, but on/off is probably fine in the absence of that option and better than controlling pH adjustments inside the main CaRx chamber.

 

[mitch91175]

Very true, variable controllable dosing would be ideal, but on/off is probably fine in the absence of that option and better than controlling pH adjustments inside the main CaRx chamber.

For the past day or so I have my programming adjusting the pH in the chamber since I have a high quality solenoid that can turn on/off without wearing out the solenoid too fast. Just need to make sure that you do have enough CO2 going to the reactor but not too much for the different levels you want to maintain.

 

[flagg37]

I like running a combination of carx and kalk. I think running the carx consistently just a little under the daily consumption and then using the dos to dose the remainder based on the alk results from the trident would be a good option. Then you aren’t controlling the output of the carx at all. It’s just going like normal.

 

[MnFish1]

It does, the bottom of the trident sits at the very top of the sump and the water line is 6 inches or so below the top of the sump.

According to @Terence - it can sit at the base of the sump (of course not in the water)

 

[ca1ore]

I’ve been running my CaRx the same way for 20 years. I set the CO2 and effluent rates to run continuously to maintain desired levels. I do use a solenoid and cycle it periodically just to because it will close if needed. Using something like trident to dynamically adjust the reactor seems like a step backwards. Seems to me if you are going to use the trident results to drive some sort of action (rather than just using it to monitor/alert) a supplemental 2/3 part dosing facility makes more sense.

 

[Moonrock]

Controlling based upon flow would be great, but the biggest challenge is that we cannot adjust the flow besides on/off via Apex.

Well you can control flow, you do it through the kamoer pump.

Are you find yet that you have to dose calcium/magnesium even running the CaRx from time to time with your pH being between 7-7.1?

never had to. not yet at least and it's been running this way for a long time.

Thanks for the detailed explanation! I’m also running a CaRx on a large sps system and thinking about how to best program it with the Trident as well (don’t have one yet but strongly considering it)

If I may offer an alternative thought (like you said, there’s many ways to do it), instead of turning on/off your CO2 solenoid based on Alk, why not turn your feed (kamoer pump) on/off based on Alk?

I’ve been thinking about the two options as well and when you keep the flow through the reactor constant and turn off the CO2, you’re still adding quite a bit of volume of water from the reactor that has a high alkalinity, thus continuing to add Alk to your tank beyond your high set point.

In recirculating reactors like a CaRx, it’s beneficial to keep the main chamber in equilibrium by keeping the pH in the range you want it and maintain the balance of Ca and CO3 ions in the solution. Otherwise, it’s just introducing a greater “lag” in the response after the controller changes the CO2 solenoid command.

If you instead just turn off the flow through the reactor (again I’m referring to the kamoer pump, not the recirculating pump), then you instantly stop adding Alk to your tank when you want to, and you instantly start adding Alk when you want to based on the Trident’s result. Important to note that in recirculating reactors, it will take some time for the water inside the main chamber to reach equilibrium of Ca and CO3 ions if the pH has gotten too high to stop dissolving the media, again generating a greater lag in the response.

Since the main reason to get a Trident is for Alk stability, for us CaRx users, my thinking is that controlling based on flow through the reactor is a better proposition than controlling pH. BRS did a video that demonstrated the effect of flow through a CaRx which explains this effect.

Open to counter ideas!

On a separate note, how do you have the feed line of the kamoer pump connected to your system? Does it run off a pressurized manifold or does the line basically sit in the sump? I’m thinking of getting one as well.

I actually tried that as well. BUT here's what you have to consider, if you turn the "Vacuum" off then water will stop flowing in that chamber. the c02 is still in that chamber and the recirculating pump is still swishing it around. So it will continue to melt media while the pump is off and when you turn it on... DUMMMMP. at least that's what I noticed. I prefer to run normal high PH water through the media when I turn off the carbon doser which then becomes harmless to the media besides a nice little bath then to have a low PH water stuck in those chambers melting media constantly while the pump is off and then dump it all in.

I’ve been running my CaRx the same way for 20 years. I set the CO2 and effluent rates to run continuously to maintain desired levels. I do use a solenoid and cycle it periodically just to because it will close if needed. Using something like trident to dynamically adjust the reactor seems like a step backwards. Seems to me if you are going to use the trident results to drive some sort of action (rather than just using it to monitor/alert) a supplemental 2/3 part dosing facility makes more sense.

What do you do with the solenoid? Can you explain a bit more? and about the step backward I'm starting to agree. my alk barely moves right now. why mess up a good thing is what the angel to my left is saying and the devil to my right is saying to experiment lol.

I like running a combination of carx and kalk. I think running the carx consistently just a little under the daily consumption and then using the dos to dose the remainder based on the alk results from the trident would be a good option. Then you aren’t controlling the output of the carx at all. It’s just going like normal.

I as well use Kalk and the CalRx. I just didn't want to explain all that in the post and confuse everyone. I have 2 Apex PMUP's in my RO that feed the ATO in the sump and the other to a kalk reactor. I have the big avast marine kalk reactor. There is an SV1 solenoid right before the sump and right before the reactor. Depending on the parameters and rules i've set it will dose just normal RO water, or Kalk, or both depending on where parameters sit. when it hits the low OS-1 sensor it turn the corresponding pump on (or both) and turns them off when it hits the high OS-1 sensor.

 

[Moonrock]

I try to keep things are stable and as close as possible. one thing i've learned over time is they enjoy stability and that's why I'm starting to debate changing anything right now. Things work, they are automated and it works.

I recently had a Favia reproduce like a year ago which was pretty cool. first I noticed one baby and then started looking around and started to find them all over the place. pretty interesting. not sure if that's an accomplishment or not, wonder how many people have had those reproduce.

Also curious if it had anything to do with the moon lighting (LSM module) I run. no idea, that was a first for me when something reproduced on it's own.

BUT, the one change I'am considering is a clear water scrubber. I run one on the living room tank and I can feed that thing as much as I want without an consequences. no socks, no skimmer, It had a NYOS 160 and had to completely take it offline.

 

[ca1ore]

What do you do with the solenoid? Can you explain a bit more?

It was advised to me years ago that if you run a solenoid in its engaged state continuously the piston can get stuck. Consequently I have my apex de-energize/close it briefly every 12 hours. No more than a minute, but it keeps the thing in good working order should something go amiss with pH and the solenoid needs to be closed. I’ve not actually ever had anything go wrong, but pays to be prepared.

 

[Carro1l]

Neptune Trident looks good so far!!
Just got mine from the first run today.
Every thing going like they said so far. 15ish min setup. Test results rite on what I expected out of the box. Rite at 7 min for one test. I like it a lot so far!!

 

[prfishgirl]

A lot of people seem to be saying this but it is just noise. To put it into perspective how many test kits and regents would you have to buy in order to test 4 times/day? Please note that it isn't also just regents you are paying for, you have to pay your time as well. How much is your time worth? I don't know, say $30/hr? You just blew past that $275 year number easy - both are hypothetical numbers of course but just wanted to set the record straight. There isn't enough time for you, or I, to run that number of tests.

Oh - and be accurate and consistent. We might as well throw that in there too because I'm sure if you test, and I test, the same water using the same kit the numbers will be different.

Lastly - this is another nugget I like to throw out there because we keep talking about a money grab. It isn't and people really should stop saying that. A money grab is a monthly subscription fee for using the Fusion portal. It is not selling regents of a known quality and baseline. If you go back a ways with Neptune then you would know back in 2000 or so we used to have to pay for Reefnotes in order to automatically plot data from the data logger. We no longer are doing that nor paying for Fusion portal access.

OP - nice feedback and great information on why the need to upgrade before integrating the Trident. Great work.

Fantastic review!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Nice review, clearly written supported with pics and easy to understand.
Yes- I will get one. This article helped decision.

 

[SaracensRugby]

Thanks for the review and follow up details, can’t wait to get mine later this year. I have hesitated really diving into SPS because I know my testing habits are not where they need to be, and I have had swings that have negatively impacted the SPS corals I have had time and again. Trident will help mitigate those swings (and the less tinkering I do with my tank).

As someone pointed out, the cost of my lost frags over the last 4 years is well over the purchase price of trident and the reagent costs for a year. So, why not. I buy into the fact that the more information I have on my tank the better, especially if I don’t have to manually do it. So Neptune and ATI and Triton (and others), keep it coming.

And the great thing about America is, no on is forcing you to buy it.

 

[litenyaup]

Great write up! I’m definitely going to get one for my system. I found a great video showing the difference between trident and alkayronic. It shows how the setup is much easier and cost effective for reagents.

 

[reyesozaeta]

There’s a better alternative for Trident...it’s called ReefBot. It just got released. It uses the available liquid test kits like Salifert, API, Red Sea, etc... I saw the videos online and it looks really good. No risk of crystallization, because there are magnetic stirrers for each bottles and it is self cleaning between test. It has has an app that will store your data in the cloud. Sells for 899 for the initial release and there’s no yearly maintenance fee unlike Trident. It’s nice to see how this machine does the test in action!
I got myself one

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

and there’s no yearly maintenance fee unlike Trident.

Trident does not have a yearly maintenance fee. It has suggested maintenance estimated at 18-24 months. If you think Reefbot or any of the other alkalinity monitors don’t require preventative maintenance over 2 years you are going to be disappointed. Anything with moving parts, let alone a complicated automatic titration unit, will require maintenance to keep it running in best condition.

Your option here is to choose a unit that is up front about their maintenance needs and conveniently sells the parts needed in a kit, or to deal with support troubleshooting your unit when it starts giving wonky readings and hopefully doesn’t crash your tank in the process.

 

[rkpetersen]

There’s a better alternative for Trident...it’s called ReefBot. It just got released. It uses the available liquid test kits like Salifert, API, Red Sea, etc... I saw the videos online and it looks really good. No risk of crystallization, because there are magnetic stirrers for each bottles and it is self cleaning between test. It has has an app that will store your data in the cloud. Sells for 899 for the initial release and there’s no yearly maintenance fee unlike Trident. It’s nice to see how this machine does the test in action!
I got myself one

I would get one, except that most of the kits it uses currently are of mediocre quality.
It doesn't matter how good the bot is, if the test itself is poor, the results will still be poor.
Also doesn't offer the smooth integration with Apex dosing control that the Trident does.
But, I do like this device, and want it to succeed. I may even wind up getting one myself at some point.