My Trident Review

[mrjoev]

You have DOS replacement heads. What is the frequency? I thought that was suggested if you are doing continuous water changes or used for automatic. Not traditional dosing.

That does not mean traditional dosing heads do not need to be replaced but I thought they had a longer shelf life.

Russ M. posted this over on the Neptune system Forums. I hope this helps. I've seen numbers double what he has stated when dosing fluid slowly over longer hours as opposed to faster larger fluid dosing:

"Please allow me to correct some incorrect info here. The DŌS manual does not state that the life of a pump head is 5000 hours. The DŌS product web page does give a figure of 5000 hours, but that is the MTBF (estimated mean time between failures) of the stepper motors, not the pump heads; MTBF is not the same as service life or a recommended replacement interval.

The useful life of a DŌS pump head is highly dependent on how it is used. A pump head which is used for dosing of small amounts of liquids at low speed (such as 25ml/day of an additive at very low speed) is most likely going to last longer than one used in a manner which is going to have more wear and tear, i.e. for extended operations at high speed (such as larger automatic water changes)."

 

[User1]

Russ M. posted this over on the Neptune system Forums. I hope this helps. I've seen numbers double what he has stated when dosing fluid slowly over longer hours as opposed to faster larger fluid dosing:

"Please allow me to correct some incorrect info here. The DŌS manual does not state that the life of a pump head is 5000 hours. The DŌS product web page does give a figure of 5000 hours, but that is the MTBF (estimated mean time between failures) of the stepper motors, not the pump heads; MTBF is not the same as service life or a recommended replacement interval.

The useful life of a DŌS pump head is highly dependent on how it is used. A pump head which is used for dosing of small amounts of liquids at low speed (such as 25ml/day of an additive at very low speed) is most likely going to last longer than one used in a manner which is going to have more wear and tear, i.e. for extended operations at high speed (such as larger automatic water changes)."

Thank you.

 

[mehaffydr]

Here is that sheet. I was making one deciding on my future actions

One thing I notice when I look at this spreadsheet is that if you go Alkatronic you get just the alkatronic and the doser but if you go Apex you get all of the benefits of control that the Apex offers for about the same cost. This in my opinion puts the Apex way above the alkatronic for value.

 

[mygsris2slo4u]

Here is that sheet. I was making one deciding on my future actions

Thanks for posting this. I keep seeing these complaints about the maintenance costs for the trident but as you point out the alkatronic would require a new ph probe at a similar interval.

Also, the complaints about the minimum 4/2/2 testing don’t make any sense. Why would you buy this to test once a week?! That would be silly. This is meant to test continuously and allow for more stable parameters.

Nice! Thing that’s hard to put a number on is the longevity of the company. I don’t know much about the alkatronic, but isn’t it something of a fly-by-night operation? What happens if the company goes poof? My own personal calculation is trident versus nothing.

Agree completely.

 

[ca1ore]

Im just curious why we have reviews of this product already. No can come up with a sensible review after only having it for a few says. Gotta give it months and month, even a year or more to see how it really functions. This is more of a run down or overview.

I guess it depends on what you consider to be sensible. Certainly no way to provide any sense of longevity or maintenance of calibration, but initial setup and configuration is useful information to me.

 

[ca1ore]

FWIW, mean time to failure and average service life are essentially the same thing. Recommended replacement interval is different.

 

[Tamberav]

Citi card gives you two years of extra warranty btw

I wish it could test just once a day with it too All I really need is Alk once a day.

What do you do if the trident is offline 72 hours? It just needs to re-calibrate again? Just curious in case of moving or upgrading tanks... extended power outages... and such where it may go offline for awhile.

 

[VJV]

Nice! Thing that’s hard to put a number on is the longevity of the company. I don’t know much about the alkatronic, but isn’t it something of a fly-by-night operation? What happens if the company goes poof? My own personal calculation is trident versus nothing.

I would say it is Trident vs KH director [emoji4]. And it seems the new add on (Ion Director) will also test for NO3 and PO4, on top of the Ca and Mag.

GHL has been around at least as long as Neptune.

 

[mitch91175]

I would say it is Trident vs KH director [emoji4]. And it seems the new add on (Ion Director) will also test for NO3 and PO4, on top of the Ca and Mag.

GHL has been around at least as long as Neptune.

Not for my situation. GHL would be great to have in the mix, but the problem is I personally already have my Apex units so I didn't consider GHL, but appreciate them coming out to market with something that will continue to force more competition.

Also, although the Trident is the shiny new penny, it still hasn't proven anything yet. Once they have been running outside of the NSI program for more than 6-12 months, then that will help us determine the overall quality of the product.

I'll be honest and say that yes the Trident does seem to be a better value IF you already have an Apex and you are dosing 2 part. That is yet to be determined when running a CaRx. Once I finally do get my hands on one, I will compare it to my Alkatronic.

 

[RussM]

You also need to factor in the annual maintenance costs of between $100 if you do it yourself or $250 if you return it to apex to maintain for you then of course it can't check your ALK while it's away. So annual costs are expensive.

It's not "annual", it's periodic, recommended at 18-24 month intervals.

 

[RussM]

One of the key points that was brought up makes perfect sense, to me anyway, the lack of purging the lines before the next test.
This has been asked but so far Neptune has not directly addressed the question.

Each new Alk test or Combined test begins by purging water remaining in the sample line from the previous test cycle to ensure that the tank water tested is fresh from the sump or tank.

 

[RussM]

the hump on the front of the trident, there's nothing in there? it was just a design language to make the top so tall? .

The "hump" contains the titration cuvette & sens0r assembly.

 

[RussM]

would there be any issues you see from turning off the power via a timer or via your eb32 so you only turn it on once a day to do one test instead 4?

This must not be done. The Trident is intended to have constant power, which is always present when using a 1LINK cable. If an Aquabus cable and separate 24VDC power supply are used instead of a 1LINK connection, that power supply be always be energized. Plugging that power supply into an EnergyBar outlet is strongly discouraged; if one does opt to do that, the EB outlet MUST be programmed to be ALWAYS ON. And that is just a waste of that "smart" outlet, which could be much better utilized for some other device. Powering off the optional Trident power supply will cause an error message displayed on the dashboard, and if Trident alarms are enabled, a corresponding email/txt/push notification to be sent by APEX Fusion.

 

[ca1ore]

I would say it is Trident vs KH director [emoji4]. And it seems the new add on (Ion Director) will also test for NO3 and PO4, on top of the Ca and Mag.

GHL has been around at least as long as Neptune.

Don’t disagree - it just wasn’t the comparison the chap made in his analysis. Does seem that automated reagent-based options have just scratched the surface of what’s possible.

 

[rkpetersen]

What do you do if the trident is offline 72 hours? It just needs to re-calibrate again? Just curious in case of moving or upgrading tanks... extended power outages... and such where it may go offline for awhile.

There's a shutdown procedure which clears all lines and makes it ready to store or transport.
Extended power outage, one would probably have bigger things to worry about than the Trident.

The calibration procedure isn't difficult but I wouldn't want to be doing it all the time.
The calibration solution is single-use and the procedure itself takes around 70 minutes to complete.

 

[Moonrock]

AMEX gives you an extra year of warranty?!

Dude amex is the best, i have one with 100k line and so does my business partner, he bought a sofa that had a 5 yr warranty and 19 months later the leather started to fade, he called amex, they gave him allll his money back and they pulled it from the client. Apparently you have 2 or 3 years to debate a charge and amex is so good that they dont ask question, just give you your money back instantly. He got back 5 grand in a matter of seconds, a week later the company called him asking why he did a charge back and he said “your couch was junk and didnt hold to the warranty, if you want it back come pick it up”. They said they would and never came. Basically got a free 5k sofa in the end lol

 

[Moonrock]

Thanks for the review. I just have one question, would there be any issues you see from turning off the power via a timer or via your eb32 so you only turn it on once a day to do one test instead 4?

Its a good thought BUTTT you cant turn off 1Link lines. You can turn off the 2-24v ports on or off like a normal plug, but 1link you cant.

 

[Moonrock]

Thanks for the review, It is def on my hit list ( a couple of versions down the road); I like Neptune and their equipment. I do have a problem with the 4 tests per day though. Once my tank is on, I test once a week. With something like this, I'd like to be able to take those tests down to a lower level as well.... maybe at least down to once a day. It's not even about the money, just the fact that I don't want/need 4 tests per day.

It's better to know, than to not know. I always thought people will complain about not having enough information and not complain when they have to much information. I think this is sort of the same way. The tests are so low in cost that its better to know, then not to. What if you wanted to knock it down to 1 test per day and now your tests start becoming inaccurate and your tank has a crash because you had auto dosing on or your parameters said they were "this" when they weren't? then you go and dump a bunch of chemicals in and crash it yourself? You'll want to blame it on the trident even though it ultimately was user error. Even worse, what if you knocked them to once a week? then your lines start getting clogged and you start running into your reagent crystalizing in the lines or something of that nature? You'll blame it on the Trident and say it was junk.

Apex has to do it this way in order to keep things accurate and stable. They have to because they stand behind their products and what they say. They would never release some half a@rz ju|\|k, ever. They want to ultimately take away less from the user and have a smaller percentage of failure so that their product stands up to its name.

Let me ask you this... What if you had auto dosing on or even if you were dosing manually. heck, even if you weren't dosing and was testing once a week and now you go and dump a bunch of alk into the tank. boom crash. OR what if you started doing something new? like weekly water changes or installed a c02 scrubber and now your corals started using up alk/cal like a maniac and you tested on Saturday when you made the change, then you go test Sunday and didn't notice anything? Then your corals finally got accustomed to the change on Monday? then Tuesday/Wednesday your like WOW, that really made a change! then Friday comes and you start seeing some weirdness. Now Saturday is here and you go test to find your alk at 4 when all your coral is dying. OR even test on friday because you notice all your coral starting to die and find your alk at 4?

If you could rub a magic genie at that moment in time and the genie would say. "i can turn back time in your tank but it will cost you 74 cents a day? (i dont know what the exact number would be but take $44.95 for a 2 month reagent pack, which is 4 tests a day and divide by 60 days) Would you pay the 74 cents per day to turn back time and not have all your coral die? I'm pretty sure you would.. and if you wouldn't pay $4 bucks to not have your coral die in a week, then you must not love the hobby as much as your think. Ask anyone who's had a crash. they would do just about anything to turn back time, anything to undo something. Especially if you have thousands of dollars invested into your tank.

We spend $40+ on a single frag sometimes and its a swing in the dark on whether it will make it or die. Hell, I went to Jason's house and bought my first home-wrecker and it was $600 or $700 (can't remember). I've gotten $300-500 dollar frags from other companies and have gotten a bounce which was also a lot. I didn't know if any of those were going to make it? We never do. none of us know. We hope that it will, but it's not a guarantee. All we can do is hope for the best. Even $20 dollar frags, Count up how many corals you've bought that have died and let me know what that number is.

So to say that you wouldn't pay $40 for an "insurance policy" every 2 months just seems a bit crazy to me... What if state farm offered coral insurance? I'm sure some people would jump right on it.

Hannah Alk Reagent is $9 for 25 tests.
Hannah Cal Reagent is $23 for 25 tests.
Hannah doesn't even have a MG test but lets say its $23 as well for 25 tests since alk is always the easiest test.

THATS $55 DOLLARS FOR 25 TESTS. With the Trident you're getting 4 tests per day for 2 months which is 120 tests for $44.95. You save money and time in the long run. The trident is auto, don't have to sit and do the tests. go ahead and add your time to that cost as well?

So my question to you is... why not just let it go ahead and run the 4 tests per day?

IF JUST ONCE, JUST ONCE through-out the entire lifetime of you being in the hobby it catches something going wrong, you will sit there and think about how glad you are you made the investment, because when something goes wrong when you only wanted 1 test a week, you will sit there and kick yourself and ask yourself why you didn't just let it do its thing. you would then be in the genie scenario wishing you could pay $4 for that week to get your tank back to a good state.

THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A MOMENT

 

[Moonrock]

nice review. I thought the trident needed to sit above the sump. is yours?

It does, the bottom of the trident sits at the very top of the sump and the water line is 6 inches or so below the top of the sump.

calcium reactor info again???

alright, so I had to wait to get to my computer.

This is the pump that feed's my calcium reactor.

it actually doesn't feed, it pulls. I have a line in the sump that pulls water through and goes into the cal rx. it then does it thing with the c02 and recirculates and what not then comes out of the reactor. It then hits my pump which is basically "pulling" the water through the calcium reactor. It's creating a vacuum in some ways and pulling water through the reactor. it then dumps it into my sump.

Hopefully all that made sense.

This is how I have the pump configured to 100ml it will ALWAYS pull. Whether it's pulling just normal water or water that's been injected with c02. it won't matter. the pump will always stay on.

This is the Co2 Regulator & CalRx that I have. A CarbonDoser.com Regulator and a GEO Dual Chamber 12" module.

as you can see I also have a PH monitor in the Calcium Reactor. The Carbon Doser is connected to an EB832 Power Bar.

Cal_PH is the Probe inside the reactor which measures the PH
CalRX_C02 is the Carbon Doser Regulator
CalRX_Doser is the Kamoer Pump which pulls water through the reactor
CalRX is the actual recirculating pump on the reactor that mixes up the co2/water to get the media to dissolve.

CalRx_Doser is the Kamoer Pump which is ALWAYS ON
CalRx which is the recirculating pump which is ALWAYS ON

CalRx_C02 is programmed like this

Which basically tells the EB bar to TURN OFF the CarbonDoser when reactor PH is lower than 7.00 and TURN on the reactor when its higher than 7.10. I keep the PH higher in the reactor but low enough to still melt the media. I keep it higher because the Kamoer is moving more water and faster. You could program it like this or how normal people program it and keep the PH at 6.6 or 6.8 and have it dripping. I keep it with a steady flow going through it. So whats the difference?

So whats it come down to? You can have less water go through the reactor at a lower PH and have it dripping to where you count drops per every 10 seconds or something and keep the PH 6.6 or something extremely low

OR

you can have a stream flowing through it and keep the PH a bit higher so that it still melts the media but its having a lot more flow go through it.

Ultimately, the media still melts. I just don't have many PH issues this way compared to dropping water with PH of 6.6 into my sump. Everyone does it different and to each their own.

NOW, WITH THE TRIDENT. The trident is just another module, just like any. which has sensors.

So you can just tell it to turn the carbon doser (c02) ON if your ALK is LOWER then 9 for instance, and to turn OFF the carbon doser regulator (c02) when it gets higher then 9.10. I'm sure you can narrow the parameters to 9.05 or 9.10 but I just stuck those in there for reference. The beauty about the carbon doser is that it's electric. So if it doesn't have power, it won't be injecting anything. So you just kill it when you don't want it injecting C02. When it turns off just the regulator, no c02 is being injected at all, so whats the kamoer doing? Just wasting it's time flowing water through the calcium reactor lol, and thats ultimately fine. its just moving sump water at its normal PH. when it detects your alk higher than the value you want, it will turn on.

I WOULDN'T recommend you running it with just 4 tests a day at first. I would run it at 24 tests a day first until I dial it in completely,. its practically the same code for auto dosing, you tell the DOS to dose when ALKx30 is lower then a certain point and to stop when its higher than a certain point. The same thing with auto dosing, you have to fine tune it. Set your trident to run a test every hour until you find you numbers which will be specific to your tank. (it says 30 because it came up as Module 30 on my apex, yours could be ALKx5, ALKx6, etc, depending on how many modules you have)

I currently have it programmed with the PH code but will be playing with the ALK code tomorrow,

so here you can tell that my ALK was 9.63 with a high point of 9.73 coming back to 9.71 at the end, so it moved roughly .08. Which I'm cool with. I pulled a good bit of frags out and typically try to keep it 9 on the dot but now I will just go back and make some minor changes and it slowly come back down to where I want it.

Hopefully all the crap i said makes some sense....

Anyway, everyone does it differently. not everyone is alike. Others might be doing what I do, others might look down upon it. others might not care. Everyones different and we can all do it differently and thats the beauty of this hobby. not the same thing works for everyone.

everyone is different.

 

[Moonrock]

Tried to delete the last image but it wont, driving me crazy... so ignore it.