Need help with Auto Water change design

[FreshSaltyGuy]

Hello all,

I finally have my 220 gal running with 75 gallon sump (running about 55 gallons in it. A big upgrade from my successful 40 gallon reef tank that has been running for about a year (yes I got the Reef Fever). The tank is up against a wall that has the back yard on the other side. I have 2, 55 gallon barrels to use, and I purchased a 3/4" wall pass through tube that I can run water/drain lines through.
Here is my issue. The drain part I believe is easy I can put the small put with 1/4" hose on a smart plug that runs let's say for 5 minutes once a week to drain the water from sump. At the same time I have a smart plug on the Main tank return pump that turns off the main pump at the same time so I don't have to worry about water being too low. The issue I have is how do I use a ATO system when my 55 gallon barrels will sit about 25 ft. from the outside wall where the plumbing comes out. If I have a pump on that barrel to pump free salt water in from the barrel, do I just put that on little pump from the barrel on another smart plug with a 5 minute schedule? The emergency stop would be to put the ATO in the SUMP and have the sensor shut off a solenoid valve and as a secondary backup have a manual float valve.
Am I thinking of this the right way? This is the best I can come up with because I don't see how I can get a cable long enough 30ft. or so to go from the ATO unit to the small pump in the barrel outside.
This MAY or MAY NOT be a forever solution as I am looking to try the Moonshiners method that cuts out water changes/minimizes them, but I also will have the ability to change the water in case things go south in the tank. Please let me know if pics or diagram is needed to help better understand this design.

 

[blaxsun]

Ideally you want an ATO system with sensors and a failsafe/shutoff to prevent too much RO water from being dispensed to your tank. If you have a Neptune Apex system this is fairly easy with their ATK kit. You might want to have a small reservoir near the tank that you fill remotely and just draw from this with the ATO.

 

[FreshSaltyGuy]

Ideally you want an ATO system with sensors and a failsafe/shutoff to prevent too much RO water from being dispensed to your tank. If you have a Neptune Apex system this is fairly easy with their ATK kit. You might want to have a small reservoir near the tank that you fill remotely and just draw from this with the ATO.

So if I did the small tank next to the sump do I use the same concept I mentioned above? But how would the pump in the 55 gallon barrel know when to turn off to fill the small ato?

 

[blaxsun]

So if I did the small tank next to the sump do I use the same concept I mentioned above? But how would the pump in the 55 gallon barrel know when to turn off to fill the small ato?

You could place a float/kill on the reservoir side. Most RODI auto-shutoff kits also come with a float valve for this express purpose.

 

[FreshSaltyGuy]

You could place a float/kill on the reservoir side. Most RODI auto-shutoff kits also come with a float valve for this express purpose.

How do I get a cable long enough to go from the float valve to the ATO controller?

 

[blaxsun]

How do I get a cable long enough to go from the float valve to the ATO controller?

The float valve connects to the RO line.

 

[FreshSaltyGuy]

The float valve connects to the RO line.

oh your just talking a manual float valve. I do plan on doing that already, but wanted a secondary backup and that was the reason for the solenoid valve that would also close when sensor reaches a level. I just don't want put in the 55 gallon barrels to keep pumping if the solenoid and float is closed then causing damage to the pump.

 

[FreshSaltyGuy]

I just thought about another idea that may solve my concern. Since I'm filling up a 55 gallon barrel with saltwater mix, if I put a 1/4" hose drain at the bottom of the barrel, and then use the float valve and solenoid valve to open and close that 1/4" hose coming into sump, shouldn't the gravity of the water push the water into the sump from 30 ft. away when the float valve and solenoid valve is in the open state? Thus needing no pump in the 55 gal barrel.

 

[Adamc13o3]

If you have a controller this is what I thank your safest options are. I have been running my system this was for 8 years now.

Top Off - Use a regular Auto Top off kit (tune, apex etc)

Have a tank for fresh ATO water. So far this is a regular ATO setup.

The tank being used for top off water needs to be drilled 3 times or you can use magnet or hand on systems for the following.

1 high float valve or flow sensor

1 Low float valve or flow sensor

1 Mechanical valve to stop water from overflowing into the fresh water top off container if the valves / sensors above malfunction.

Program it to have the water from your fresh water source which is outside or a solenoid on an RODO unit plumbed directly to the top off bin to turn on when the bottom float valve is triggered and off when the top is triggered. Both must be down for it to call for water.

If you want to go a simpler route you don't have to add the top off container which is getting topped off from a fresh water container. You can technically go directly from your larger fresh water bin. I am setting up a new tank and was going to do it that way. However, I. moved from NY to FL and my fresh water container which is outdoors is in a black deck box. The box gets really hot and the water is getting to like 95 degrees or higher. Because of that I am going to do it the way I always had it and have it fill another container inside my house so it has time to cool off before being added to the tank.

Regarding water changes your easiest option is using a doser. Yo will never get the same water in and out using timers. You can use a dose with two heads and have it remove and add water at the same time. Some people run it continuously like that as to always be changing a little water daily and keep the tank as stable as possible.

I just found this picture in another thread. This is what the top off bin should look like. You can also have your fresh water bin with the same exact setup calling for water from your RODi when the valves or sensors are triggered. The reason you want it setup as one large fill is because it will save the filters and give you better water from your RODI when it runs continuously as opposed to very short bursts all the time.



Hope I helped,

Adam

 

[Adamc13o3]

I just thought about another idea that may solve my concern. Since I'm filling up a 55 gallon barrel with saltwater mix, if I put a 1/4" hose drain at the bottom of the barrel, and then use the float valve and solenoid valve to open and close that 1/4" hose coming into sump, shouldn't the gravity of the water push the water into the sump from 30 ft. away when the float valve and solenoid valve is in the open state? Thus needing no pump in the 55 gal barrel.

I am not 100% sure but a the pump that comes with the Tunze Osmolator seems pretty strong that it may be able to do 25 feet. The PMUP from Neptune is supposed to be very strong as well.

Auto-Top-Off (ATO) for PMUP

ATO will likely be the most popular use for this pump. And unlike many wimpy pumps out there, the PMUP has enough pressure to push water up 14 feet vertically, it can even move the water up from one floor below.

This means you could put your RO water storage in your basement or downstairs in a utility room and it could still pump it up to the tank.

It also has a vertically oriented design with a bottom intake and top output that is perfect for use in jugs or other RO containers. Just drop it in!