I have a 72 gallon aquarium and I want make sure that it's done right. I've used reef saver rock and live pink Fiji live sand. I've also put bio-spira in it to make sure I have the right bacteria growing. I've been watching my PH, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates, calcium, phosphate and KH. Everything is perfect... In fact to perfect. I know ammonia is what the bacteria needs to really start and finish the cycling process, right now I have none. With no fish or corals this is expected. My question is this, should I get two or three fish (thinking clowns) and a small soft coral (like an anemone)? I know I don't want to over do it, as it would cause wide swings in ammonia, but would a soft coral like that be OK? Advice on cycling and livestock would be great!
New aquarium guidance
I am also very new but one thing I have heard many times is that an anemone is not a good choice to start off with. Also you need to make sure that you were tank can process the ammonia and turn it into nitrites and then nitrates. I did that without using fish because I did not want to harm them. I dosed my tank using pure ammonia and made sure it was converted back to 0 within 24 hours.
SuperDragon
Active Member
One can cycle with a dead cocktail shrimp or nsw or old tank water from another reefer. That way you don't have a to sacrifice a fish, or keep a fish you may not like, or may not be able to catch once it's over.
I wish I knew some fellow reefers in my area! I don't want to "sacrifice" any fish. I've heard a lot of people us the shrimp method but have been leary of it, but I think that's just because rotting food does sounds great lol I think that's going to be my best option though.
Peter Blue Reef
Active Member
My advice is to get your ammonia in there one way or another and don't test your water for 3 weeks. You'll just be wasting tests. It's going to do what it's going to do whether you test it or not. After your third week then start to monitor it. Just keep your specific gravity in check and you'll be fine.
Peter Blue Reef
Active Member
Amazing advice. I watched one of my neighbors rush in at week 5 with a few nems. Bleaching started about two weeks later. Hospice care followed for three weeks before the were in a trash can. I'd wait for about 6 months before introducing those. Clowns are fine without them. One clown that is.
jeff williams
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2016
- Messages
- 646
- Reaction score
- 362
I don't like the to cycle with shrimp do to you really can't control the amount of ammonia you produce. I would buy some nitrifying bacteria (dr Tims one and only or Seachem stability ect here's a bunch on the market) add it to the tank remove filter sock turn off uv and skimmer for at least 48 hrs (I just remove mine all together until cycle is complete) dose tank with ammonia (you can get it anywhere just make sure it's pure no dyes or scent) I found ace hardwares ammonia can be added at 1 drop per gallon of water and equal 1 ppm ammonia. Dose ammonia to 1 ppm test ammonia in 24 hrs you should see a reduction then test nitrite it should start rising once ammonia hits 0 and nitrite Has spiked and reduced to .25 I redose to 1 ppm ammonia and I keep doing this until I can dose 1ppm ammonia and in 24 hrs ammonia and nitrite are 0 then do a WC cus nitrate will be 160 ppm+ Then you have a solid bacteria population add fish
mcarroll
10K Club member
He already added bacteria...though the instructions call for adding fish immediately....not sure if he's past his window now.
Personally, I'm still old-school. Add bacteria (I think Biozyme was the first such product and seemed brand new when I was getting started. LOL) and wait a few days or whatever the package states (no time for Bio Spira) and add your fish (or whatever first bio-load you have planned).
Adding one fish in an appropriately sized tank that has been so-prepared isn't going to hurt the fish. Just take is slow from there. (This is not the only reason you should be taking it slow anyway, so what am I even telling you??
) Add another fish in a month or a few months. IMO, take it easy on the fish after that and focus on your inverts and coral for the rest of the year. Rushing to fill up the tank with fish is one of the biggest and most common mistakes made.
And if you want coral, you could also start with coral...or add a coral at the same time as the fish. Ammonium is their favorite dissolved nutrient, so they'll help absorb any free ammonia in the tank.
For what it's worth....
Using the shrimp is a new idea that's been around a few years but not all that long, but I don't like the idea of it. Putrefying flesh in a mostly-sterile tank of water seems likely to encourage more than nitrifying bacteria, just for starters.
Seed the tank and use live critters – just go slow.
If you haven't bumped into any of @Paul B 's threads on fish-keeping, click his name there and look up his list of threads or list of posts and dig in!
Here's a few goodies to get you started....I tried to rotate the best to the top of the list, but they're all good:
Personally, I'm still old-school. Add bacteria (I think Biozyme was the first such product and seemed brand new when I was getting started. LOL) and wait a few days or whatever the package states (no time for Bio Spira) and add your fish (or whatever first bio-load you have planned).
Adding one fish in an appropriately sized tank that has been so-prepared isn't going to hurt the fish. Just take is slow from there. (This is not the only reason you should be taking it slow anyway, so what am I even telling you??
) Add another fish in a month or a few months. IMO, take it easy on the fish after that and focus on your inverts and coral for the rest of the year. Rushing to fill up the tank with fish is one of the biggest and most common mistakes made. And if you want coral, you could also start with coral...or add a coral at the same time as the fish. Ammonium is their favorite dissolved nutrient, so they'll help absorb any free ammonia in the tank.
For what it's worth....
Using the shrimp is a new idea that's been around a few years but not all that long, but I don't like the idea of it. Putrefying flesh in a mostly-sterile tank of water seems likely to encourage more than nitrifying bacteria, just for starters.
Seed the tank and use live critters – just go slow.
If you haven't bumped into any of @Paul B 's threads on fish-keeping, click his name there and look up his list of threads or list of posts and dig in!
Here's a few goodies to get you started....I tried to rotate the best to the top of the list, but they're all good:
- Tank birthday, 40+ years
- Fish Health Through Slime
- How does food equate to health
- A discussion on immunity
- Possable way to enhance live Blackworms
- Why do so many fish get sick?
- Auto brine shrimp hatchery and feeder
- Fattening up a mandarin
- I do not give saltwater aquarium advice
- White worms, black worms
- Typhoon Time
40B Knasty
Valuable Member
Here is the thing you really want to know that no one ever talks about. The 4 stages.
Ammonia is your food, poop, pee, etc..
Nitrites turns Ammonia into nitrates.
Nitrates is what needs to be removed.
Now here is how this happens.
1) Water changes
2) Anaerobic bacteria. This is what turns nitrates into a gas form to float up and out of your tank. This is what lives in your live rock. The reason for wanting great porosity. This is what needs to develop so it is not just you fighting the battle with water changes.
A table shrimp 100% works. I have done it 3 times. Works like a charm.
Think about this when you buy bacteria in a bottle. If it is just supposed to be bacteria in a bottle. Why do some not work?
If you want your tank to have the right bacteria always. Throw in real food & real rotting things that would need to be known how to be broken down by your tank. While the shrimp rots. Ghost feed what you will feed your tank lightly every 2 days once a day. Like mysis, bloodworms, brine, scallop or shrimp from the grocery store thinly sliced and diced. You want to beat up your tank and turn it into a machine. When you can throw your best punch at it and it laughs it off like "that's all you got." You KNOW your tank is ready
Throwing a bottle of ammonia in a tank with live sand and live rock actually kills the beneficial bacteria that you paid top dollar for to start your cycle.
Once that ammonia goes up. Then nitrites and nitrates spike. Ammonia and nitrites come back down to zero. Your tank is good to go.
Ammonia is your food, poop, pee, etc..
Nitrites turns Ammonia into nitrates.
Nitrates is what needs to be removed.
Now here is how this happens.
1) Water changes
2) Anaerobic bacteria. This is what turns nitrates into a gas form to float up and out of your tank. This is what lives in your live rock. The reason for wanting great porosity. This is what needs to develop so it is not just you fighting the battle with water changes.
A table shrimp 100% works. I have done it 3 times. Works like a charm.
Think about this when you buy bacteria in a bottle. If it is just supposed to be bacteria in a bottle. Why do some not work?
If you want your tank to have the right bacteria always. Throw in real food & real rotting things that would need to be known how to be broken down by your tank. While the shrimp rots. Ghost feed what you will feed your tank lightly every 2 days once a day. Like mysis, bloodworms, brine, scallop or shrimp from the grocery store thinly sliced and diced. You want to beat up your tank and turn it into a machine. When you can throw your best punch at it and it laughs it off like "that's all you got." You KNOW your tank is ready
Throwing a bottle of ammonia in a tank with live sand and live rock actually kills the beneficial bacteria that you paid top dollar for to start your cycle.
Once that ammonia goes up. Then nitrites and nitrates spike. Ammonia and nitrites come back down to zero. Your tank is good to go.
40B Knasty
Valuable Member
Forgot to say do a big water change to pull nitrates out after you hit zeros with your ammonia and nitrites. Get your nitrates down as low as you can. Then you know those fish from the LFS is going to a better water quality. They will be going from a 20-40ppm of nitrates to 0-5ppm in your tank. That is how you start off a tank if you covered all the basics of live rock lbs to gallon ratio.
Just a heads up. Your carbon filter bag is great for the start up to get the impurities out of the water. Don't look for it being a big player in the game. Ask any LFS if they run carbon. Most likely not. Think about this. People use carbon reactors with 10x the amount of your bag and change it every week. So at 10x less you have a good 2 days worth of it being useful I am guessing. Look into Purigen. You have to change it out every 6 months.
Just a heads up. Your carbon filter bag is great for the start up to get the impurities out of the water. Don't look for it being a big player in the game. Ask any LFS if they run carbon. Most likely not. Think about this. People use carbon reactors with 10x the amount of your bag and change it every week. So at 10x less you have a good 2 days worth of it being useful I am guessing. Look into Purigen. You have to change it out every 6 months.
So what it sounds like is that there are really two options.
1) Add a cocktail shrimp and let it decay
2) Dose the tank with ammonia
From my understanding both if these seem to accomplish the same thing. They create and abundance of ammonia to aid in bacterial colonization. The bacteria turns the ammonia into nitrite and then nitrates, which then turns into nitrogen gas and in turn helps oxygenate the water (I know there are several bacteria that help with with each different process).
So this leads to my next question. Adding a decaying shrimp seems like it would be an unregulated or unmeasured way to begin the process; where dosing would give the ability to control the cycling a little more. It also sounds like dosing has a quicker turn around time as the ammonia isn't slowly leaking out of the decaying shrimp.
Sooooo is it better to have control over the process or let nature do it's thing?
For a system that needs so much care, attention and control it seems like dosing would be better?
1) Add a cocktail shrimp and let it decay
2) Dose the tank with ammonia
From my understanding both if these seem to accomplish the same thing. They create and abundance of ammonia to aid in bacterial colonization. The bacteria turns the ammonia into nitrite and then nitrates, which then turns into nitrogen gas and in turn helps oxygenate the water (I know there are several bacteria that help with with each different process).
So this leads to my next question. Adding a decaying shrimp seems like it would be an unregulated or unmeasured way to begin the process; where dosing would give the ability to control the cycling a little more. It also sounds like dosing has a quicker turn around time as the ammonia isn't slowly leaking out of the decaying shrimp.
Sooooo is it better to have control over the process or let nature do it's thing?
For a system that needs so much care, attention and control it seems like dosing would be better?
40B Knasty
Valuable Member
Well man you can do what you want. I can only tell you what 100% works for .50¢ vs a bottle that costs more and is not 100%. I never questioned 100% before and not about to start.
I'm sure this is is already covered (didn't read all responses), but I went the fishless cycle method. It's just a) less harsh on any fish, so they don't have to suffer with ammonia @ all, and also has a less likelihood of introducing a parasite like ICH into your aquarium (if you plan to QT all your fish before putting in the DT!)
I am a strong advocate of QT (quarantine), and would advise to look into that too, which you can start now while your tank is cycling.
Here is the guide I followed:
http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/how-to-start
http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/fishless-cycling
Used his ammonia w/ bio-spira & worked like a charm!
I am a strong advocate of QT (quarantine), and would advise to look into that too, which you can start now while your tank is cycling.
Here is the guide I followed:
http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/how-to-start
http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/fishless-cycling
Used his ammonia w/ bio-spira & worked like a charm!
mcarroll
10K Club member
I don't have a beef with anyone who likes those options, but I really hate them.
For #1, I don't let anything just rot in the tank if I can help it...that's poor husbandry. I don't see why it should be The Way to start a tank. If I wanted to try it, I'd look up some infor on http://scholar.google.com on rotting shrimp in saltwater to see what else to expect aside from nitrifying bacteria. For #2, thanks to terrorists it's now impossible to find plain ammonia in a bottle, anywhere near civilization.....it's all laced with soap or detergent and fragrances nowadays. I wouldn't trust any ammonia from a consumer outlet.
So what? There are better options for me...and maybe you:
3) Taking your time and using dilution. (One fish's ammonia in a large tank = dillution.) It works well. It's not fishless – but it's not a problem either. Only about ten zillion tanks were cycled successfully like this over history. It also works 100% of the time, in saltwater or freshwater.
You just add the smallest bio-load you can at the beginning and build it up slowly over time. And you don't have to start with a fish if you'd rather start with a crab or snail or....use your imagination.4) Using a bacterial additive like Bio-spira and following the directions which at least several people do not find hard.
Similar threads
New Posts
-
Nebraska Live Goods SPONSOR Phyto and Pods! ALL YOUR REEF CAN EAT- Latest: Reef By Steele
-
-
-
