White Spots on Clownfish

[jy808]

I have had freshwater aquarium in the past, and have recently decided to jump into a marine aquarium as my new little hobby. Have had always wanted to make this jump!

I have started a new 160L tank (AquaOne Minireef 160). I have cycled it for about 2 weeks, with coral sand and live rock placed in there for the entire duration of the cycle.
3 days ago, I had my local fish shop test my water parameters and they said I was good to start slowly introducing some fish.

I decided to get 6 clown fish to begin with as well as one bubble tip anemone.

First night: After waking up yesterday morning at 6.30am, I noticed the clownfish with little white spots. At first I thought it was the the well known white spot disease, but after an hour the spots went away and they looked healthy. As they day continued, they seemed fine. They ate and were active. I went to my local fish shop and was advised that if it were the white spot disease (or Ich?), it would not simply just go away after an hour. It would take a day or two to rid. Again, as the day went on, there were no white spots seen on the clownfish and they were very active in the tank, also eating well.

Second night: As I woke up this morning again at 6:30am, I had noticed the white spots had reoccured. As well as one little clownfish lying lifeless on the bed of the tank. Not a sight I wanted to see. Most of them had the white spots, and one was right towards the top of the tank looking as if it were next to go. Similarly to the night before, after an hour the spots had gone and they are somewhat active again. I had decided not to turn on the light on the tank and let the sunlight slowly settle into the house.

Some factors to consider:

1. I have tested the water parameters every day, and signs show good results.
2. I noticed my father had left one of our doors open overnight to allow cool air into the home, of course this would have had dramatically affected the temperate of the water. I noticed the water temp was 27degrees last night, to 23degrees this morning. I understand this is a very significant jump in water temp.
3. Ich? Could it really be Ich? Factoring in that white spots do not simply go away after an hour? Do clownfish normally show whitespot as a sign of stress?
4. What is the best thing to do moving forward given the current information?

I've dropped some photos below, would appreciate any help or information.

 

[Uncle99]

Looks like ick to me
TTM, Hypo or copper
DT fishless for 70 days

 

[Big G]

That's either Ich or early Brook (aka Clownfish disease). The rapid death has me thinking possible Early Brook. Early Brook can present very similar to both Ich and velvet. But those spots are too big for velvet. But those areas around the head and face are troubling that could be developing into the classic peeling of Brook.

At this point, treating with copper and metro would cover both parasites.

Pictures of most common fish diseases/parasites:

Fish Disease Index - Pictorial Guide

Pictorial Guide to Marine Fish Diseases Use this guide to find a picture that most closely matches your fish's symptoms. Click the link, if available for more detailed information on the disease and how to treat it. Ich (Cryptocaryon Irritans) One of the most well-known parasites in the...

www.reef2reef.com

Treatment for Ich:

Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans)

Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) What You Need To Know: * Mild fish parasite which is often managed by using a UV Sterilizer, Ozone, Diatom Filter, Oxydator, herbal remedies, enhanced nutrition, etc. etc. * Can be treated in a quarantine tank using Hyposalinity, Chloroquine, Copper or...

www.reef2reef.com

Treatment for Brooklynella:

Brooklynella

Brooklynella hostilis What You Need To Know: * This is most often seen in clownfish, but it can afflict any fish. The fish’s skin will appear to be peeling or sloughing off, oftentimes causing excessive white mucous to form around the affected area(s). * Treatment of choice is a 45 minute...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[jy808]

Thanks for the info Big G.

Given that I have an anemone in the tank, my understanding that the copper will not be good for the anemone.

Would it be better to:

1. Move all the fish and anemone to a quarantine tank and treat it with copper in the quarantine tank?
2. Or move the anemone to a quarantine tank, and treat the fish with the copper in the main tank?

 

[Stege_saurus]

The issue here is 2 things:
1) Ich or "white spot disease" is completely different when it comes to Freshwater vs Saltwater. Freshwater is easier IMO to get rid of and there's a little more options for an outbreak as compared to Saltwater. Now, if this is indeed ich, you have 2 options:
-You can continue to battle it, ensuring your fish are getting proper nutrition. They will eventually develop a tolerance and immunity to it, however any new additions will not have this immunity and thus risk death. Also ensure you keep your water pristine, it will help cut back on the parasites numbers.

-You can do a full quarantine, setting up another tank to use for treatment with a copper medication and any other medications they may also need for unknown diseases. You would have to leave your display tank without any fish for a minimum of 76 days to make sure all remnants of the parasite are eliminated. You will still need to keep "ghost feeding" your display to make sure the bacteria are fed and still doing the nitrogen cycle.

I suggest the quarantine and treatment procedure, because I can tell you first hand (currently battling ich, and starting quarantine) it's a pain in the rear to manage this disease, knowing any new additions may die to it.

Either way you choose, we will be here to help along the way!

 

[Stege_saurus]

Thanks for the info Big G.

Given that I have an anemone in the tank, my understanding that the copper will not be good for the anemone.

Would it be better to:

1. Move all the fish and anemone to a quarantine tank and treat it with copper in the quarantine tank?
2. Or move the anemone to a quarantine tank, and treat the fish with the copper in the main tank?

Dont move the anemone, it will die in the copper. Leave it in the display tank and it will be fine. Move the fish, it's alot easier and way less risky.

 

[jy808]

Dont move the anemone, it will die in the copper. Leave it in the display tank and it will be fine. Move the fish, it's alot easier and way less risky.

Thanks!

Really appreciate it. Loving this community already!

Well I am about to head to my local fish shop now and possibly get the copper + quarantine tank.
What is the minimal size I will need for a quarantine tank and what other essential equipment will I need to go with it?

 

[Stege_saurus]

Thanks!

Really appreciate it. Loving this community already!

Well I am about to head to my local fish shop now and possibly get the copper + quarantine tank.
What is the minimal size I will need for a quarantine tank and what other essential equipment will I need to go with it?

How many fish do you have?
How big are the fish?

Needed items:
Tank
Heater
Filter (hang on back will work)
Powerhead or something to agitate the surface of the water
PVC pipe fittings for hiding places

Here's a photo of my current quarantine setup:
55g

 

[Stege_saurus]

Thanks!

Really appreciate it. Loving this community already!

Well I am about to head to my local fish shop now and possibly get the copper + quarantine tank.
What is the minimal size I will need for a quarantine tank and what other essential equipment will I need to go with it?

I forgot to mention youll need some sort of nitrifying bacteria. Bio Spira, Dr Tims or anything like that should do. Or if you have a media in your sump that's been there for 30 days should work. Don't put sand or rock in it, it will absorb the copper and throw your tests off causing things to go crazy.

 

[Big G]

Thanks for the info Big G.

Given that I have an anemone in the tank, my understanding that the copper will not be good for the anemone.

Would it be better to:

1. Move all the fish and anemone to a quarantine tank and treat it with copper in the quarantine tank?
2. Or move the anemone to a quarantine tank, and treat the fish with the copper in the main tank?

Best to move the all the fish to a QT. The main tank will need to go fallow for 76 days to starve out the parasites. Continue to feed the nem.

 

[jy808]

I forgot to mention youll need some sort of nitrifying bacteria. Bio Spira, Dr Tims or anything like that should do. Or if you have a media in your sump that's been there for 30 days should work. Don't put sand or rock in it, it will absorb the copper and throw your tests off causing things to go crazy.

The media in my old sump are live rock that I crushed and broken into smaller pieces.

 

[jy808]

How many fish do you have?
How big are the fish?

Needed items:
Tank
Heater
Filter (hang on back will work)
Powerhead or something to agitate the surface of the water
PVC pipe fittings for hiding places

Here's a photo of my current quarantine setup:
55g

I looks like another clown is about to go
So I i will have 4 left, as 2 has gone today.
The fish are about 2-3CM, not very big.

 

[Stege_saurus]

I looks like another clown is about to go
So I i will have 4 left, as 2 has gone today.
The fish are about 2-3CM, not very big.

10 or 20g should work just fine. You may try a freshwater dip to try and relieve them temporarily. I would just try and get bacteria in a bottle, it will work in a pinch. Keep up with your ammonia test on it though. It's starting to sound like Brook in all honesty. Ich doesn't usually work that fast.

 

[Big G]

Thanks!

Really appreciate it. Loving this community already!

Well I am about to head to my local fish shop now and possibly get the copper + quarantine tank.
What is the minimal size I will need for a quarantine tank and what other essential equipment will I need to go with it?

20 gallon works for most applications unless you are planning on QTing some larger fish. The bigger the tank, the more quantity of meds, water for water changes, etc.
HOB: Aquaclear are very nice. Soak the foam pad in BioSpira, Stability, etc. Add a mesh bag of ceramic media like Fluval BioMax or Seachem Matrix, soak it also in the BioSpira, etc.
Foam Bubble filter, soak the foam in BioSpira, etc.
Seachem Ammonia Alert Badge. Use a flashlight to illuminate the badge from "behind" to get the best view of the color range on the badge.
Powerhead aimed up at the surface actively rippling the water adds a tremendous amount of O2.
A couple of PVC fittings and or plastic plants to help the fish relax a bit.
Cover the back wall and ends of the tank to give the fish a bit of privacy so they will relax.
Leave the tank lights off for a few days. Ambient room lighting only.

Feed the fish a wide variety of high quality foods. I mix up 7-8 assorted frozen fish cubes. Let them thaw in the fridge in a bowl. Pour off the excess liquid. Add a few drops of vitamins like Selcon, etc.
Consider adding to the mixed food some Beta Glucan. It's a very helpful boost to the fish's immune system. Do it by mixing the food mix + Focus (binder) + Beta Glucan. The mix will stay good in the fridge for a few days. Here's a bit of info on Beta Glucan:

Feature Article: Beta Glucan As A Biological Defense Modulator: Helping Fish To Help Themselves

Wouldn’t it be great if there were one thing that we could give any sick fish that could help it? Aquarists dream of a “magic bullet” that could be used as a treatment for a plethora of problems.

www.advancedaquarist.com

 

[jy808]

So I bought some copper treatment. My local fish shop suggested that i add the treatment into the display tank, while i remove the anemone (they were more than happy to mind it for me while i treat the display tank).

What are your thoughts on this rather than setting up a quarantine tank?

Although i am new to all of this, i can see the importance of a QT. Down the track as i am more advanced this is something i wish to do, prepare a QT for any future diseases.

Bottle of treatment attached

 

[Stege_saurus]

So I bought some copper treatment. My local fish shop suggested that i add the treatment into the display tank, while i remove the anemone (they were more than happy to mind it for me while i treat the display tank).

What are your thoughts on this rather than setting up a quarantine tank?

Although i am new to all of this, i can see the importance of a QT. Down the track as i am more advanced this is something i wish to do, prepare a QT for any future diseases.

Bottle of treatment attached

The rock and substrate in your DT could absorb the copper, leeching it out at a later time, possibly killing the anemone and other inverts (coral, shrimp, crabs, snails) causing you to go back to square one. Unfortunately, most times if your anemone dies it releases toxins into the water column and kills other inhabitants.

 

[jy808]

The anemone will be taken out, it will then be taken to the my local fish shop for safekeeping.

They were happy for it to remain there till the tank is treated.

 

[Cell]

If my LFS talked me out of getting a QT tank and instead dose copper straight to my DT, they would no longer be my LFS.

 

[Gw2kpro]

If you put copper in the display, you will have to discard your rocks and sand. They will likely absorb the copper and leach it back out later, killing invertebrates.

 

[PilotOfSubmarines]

Do not put the copper in your DT. Do it properly or you will pay the price later.

Sometimes the best advice is tough advice.