Ammonia 8ppm

[coralcoralcoral10]

Hello it’s coral again. Today I tested my water and my ammonia is 8ppm and possibly over. Most of my coral didn’t make the tank transition. 3 weeks ago I transferred my 46 gallon 3 month old tank to a new 144 gallon tank. Parameters are PH-8 Nitrates .2. Nitrites 0. Ammonia 8ppm. Temp 79. Salinity 1.025. Is it possible to have these Ammonia levels so high with Nitrites at 0. All my fish are alive and accounted for. Same with inverts. I have been dosing Microbacter 7 and Prime daily. How can my fish be alive in water testing over 8ppm. I’m new to this and any information would be helpful. 6 days ago i preformed a 60% water change and ammonia levels were still high

 

[blaxsun]

First I'd ask what you're using for an ammonia test kit.

 

[mdb_talon]

As i understand it using prime can detoxify ammonia, but not really prevent it from showing on test kits? I have never used it but i read that a lot lol

 

[coralcoralcoral10]

First I'd ask what you're using for an ammonia test kit.

I am using salt water master api test kit.

 

[coralcoralcoral10]

As i understand it using prime can detoxify ammonia, but not really prevent it from showing on test kits? I have never used it but i read that a lot lol

It does I think thats why my fish are Alive

 

[Mjrenz]

It is true that prime will bind the ammonia and detoxify it for 24 to 48 hrs but it will still show up on an ammonia test kit. I’d suggest staying on your current path of dosing the bacteria and prime and investing in a different test kit. The api test kits are known for being very inaccurate

 

[coralcoralcoral10]

As i understand it using prime can detoxify ammonia, but not really prevent it from showing on test kits? I have never used it but i read that a lot on

It is true that prime will bind the ammonia and detoxify it for 24 to 48 hrs but it will still show up on an ammonia test kit. I’d suggest staying on your current path of dosing the bacteria and prime and investing in a different test kit. The api test kits are known for being very inaccurate

Ok will do. Thank you

 

[Chrisv.]

pH is also a major factor. "Ammonia exists in water as either the ammonium ion (NH4+) or the un-ionized ammonia (NH3). Un-ionized ammonia is toxic to fish, while the ammonium ion is nontoxic except at extremely high concentrations. As the pH and temperature increase, the amount of NH3 increases and the amount of NH4+ decreases."

 

[Chrisv.]

pH is also a major factor. "Ammonia exists in water as either the ammonium ion (NH4+) or the un-ionized ammonia (NH3). Un-ionized ammonia is toxic to fish, while the ammonium ion is nontoxic except at extremely high concentrations. As the pH and temperature increase, the amount of NH3 increases and the amount of NH4+ decreases."

So at pH of 8, even if you really do have 8ppm ammonia, it's in the nh4 state and not as dangerous. As soon as your pH increases you run a rock of toxicity.

 

[coralcoralcoral10]

So at pH of 8, even if you really do have 8ppm ammonia, it's in the nh4 state and not as dangerous. As soon as your pH increases you run a rock of toxicity.

That is so informative thank you. What would u do to save the fish and get past this cycle without fish death I’m not attached to the corals but I am the fish and inverts?

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

Does Prime actually "Detoxify" free ammonia, NH3?

This started when @Dan_P was looking at measuring NH3 with seneye and was curious about performance near zero NH3. I suggested trying Prime to artificially zero out the NH3 sensor, and the results were weird... so I checked with my seachem kit. Prime by Seachem is commonly used to treat tap...

www.reef2reef.com

Unpopular opinion but prime isn't doing anything but messing with you head and there are dozens of explanations for a API ammonia kit reading.
1. Known misread issues
2. Test kit was contaminated
3. Doing the test wrong
4. Prime is screwing with test results

If you fish are not stressed and your inverts have not been impacted then your nitrification cycled isn't breaking. Think about this critically.. You are using a poor quality test kit known to have issues, you performed a 60% water change without impacting the ammonia reading (which is impossible), your fish are fine and doubtful prime does anything to actually reduce ammonia (its snake oil), 0 nitrite readings and the visual queues in the reef for ammonia poisoning are not present (gasping).

If you give me a walk through of how you did the move I can say with a high certainty whether you nuked your tank. A pic of the tank and walk through of the steps you took provides more information about your system than a fairly useless test kit.

@brandon429 has walked me through my 3 tank move with zero losses. He might have insight.

 

[reefz]

Ive never heard of ph affecting ammonia…. but I do think you should get some better bottled bac. Like fritz turbo start 900. You can go to your lfs and buy some already established rocks. Boosting that bio load will surely get rid of the ammonia. Do you have any fish? If so, remove them. Stop feeding the tank, and stop dosing prime. I once had a 60g qt that didn’t cycle for a whole month. I was dosing prime, and it says that you can dose during the cycle so I ussumed it was safe. As soon as I stopped dosing, the cycle completed 3 days later. That’s everything I know. Good luck.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

Ive never heard of ph affecting ammonia…. but I do think you should get some better bottled bac. Like fritz turbo start 900. You can go to your lfs and buy some already established rocks. Boosting that bio load will surely get rid of the ammonia. Do you have any fish? If so, remove them. Stop feeding the tank, and stop dosing prime. I once had a 60g qt that didn’t cycle for a whole month. I was dosing prime, and it says that you can dose during the cycle so I ussumed it was safe. As soon as I stopped dosing, the cycle completed 3 days later. That’s everything I know. Good luck.

pH increases the toxicity of free ammonia in the tank. API is measuring total

 

[Spare time]

Ammonia is not 8ppm unless you used dry everything and never added bacteria. The reason why is you should see nitrite while the ammonia is that high (or would have seen nitrite sky rocket before hand). I really just think something is wrong with the kit.

 

[reefz]

pH increases the toxicity of free ammonia in the tank. API is measuring total

What now?

 

[Chrisv.]

That is so informative thank you. What would u do to save the fish and get past this cycle without fish death I’m not attached to the corals but I am the fish and inverts?

I believe the seachem ammonia badge only measures the toxic form. I'd get one to use it for continuous monitoring. There is no way for a testing error with the badge. You can get it at your lfs or Petco.

Do you know what the ammonia is coming from? Important to remove dead or almost dead stuff imho.

I suggest three things:

1) waterchange. For reasons beyond the scope of this thread, synthetic seawater does have ammonia in it (just a little) when freshly mixed... But way less than 8 ppm. If you do a 30% WC soon and another in a few days, you will dilute the ammonia quickly, provided that you are not somehow adding more (from decaying marine life).

2) On that note, unless your fish are starving, substantially reduce or hold off on feeding for a couple of days while you figure this out.

3) consider adding something like purigen, which can directly absorb ammonia asa temporary measure.

4) add some bottled bacteria. Several are good. Some claim to be fast acting. I have had luck with one called biospira. It's available via your local Petco. Add it as if you are setting up a new tank. The bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite work more quickly than the ones that convert. Nitrite to nitrate, so this will still get you out of ammonia land. Nitrite is either non toxic or minimally toxic to marine fish. There are whole threads this you can read if you want some majorly circular debates.

I have never personally used prime, so hopefully other folks will chime in.

 

[Spare time]

Seachem even mentions prime can give false ammonia readings when there is no ammonia.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

What now?

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php

Take a good read. Basically ammonia exists in NH3 (free ammonia) and NH4 (ammonium) while NH3 is toxic, NH4 is not. The concentration of NH3 and NH4 will depend on pH.

 

[Chrisv.]

What now?

Api measures both ammonia and ammonium. Only one of the forms is toxic. At OPs pH almost none of what api can measure should be in the toxic state.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

@coralcoralcoral10 proof that prime messes with readings. Sample is from my established tank and 5 drops of prime in 50 ml sample.. test is white/grey.

Not saying your ammonia is zero, im saying that if nothing is dying them your nitrification cycle will take care of it.