DIY copper med

Humblefish · Mar 1, 2018

First off, many thanks to @Christoph for providing me with this information in the first place. The below "recipe" can also be found in a book by Gerald Bassleer: https://www.bassleer.com/over-gerald-bassleer/

Into 1 liter of RODI water add:

4 grams Copper(II) sulfate pentahydrate (CuSO4.5H2O)

AND

0.25 gram Citric acid - the acid acts as a stabilizer to the copper in solution. Never substitute the citric acid with ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) since it will render the copper way more toxic. :eek:

Everything should dissolve nicely giving you a slightly bluish solution.

9.8 mL of this solution is necessary to bring 100 Liters (26.4172 US gallons) of tank water to 0.1 mg/L copper. Therapeutic range is ~ 0.15 to 0.25 mg/L, but I would try to stay below 0.20 for sensitive species. Can easily be measured with Salifert copper test kit.

^^ The above might be an option to try for those struggling with commercially available copper products. o_O It is "old school copper", which isn't used much anymore (except by public aquariums, research institutions, etc.) because it isn't very "user friendly" and has a narrow therapeutic range. So be sure to pay close attention to detail when mixing everything & dosing. I will begin looking for online sources to buy the above listed ingredients; @Randy Holmes-Farley might already know of some.

Humblefish · Mar 1, 2018

Copper sulfate pentahydrate is also listed here as a proper treatment for Marine Ich: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164

Christoph · Mar 1, 2018

Hi everybody,

thanks to Humblefish for posting this!

the citric acid can for sure be bought at Wal Mart. - And copper sulfate pentahydrate is available on amazon, or you might ask a pharmacist. Both chemicals are very cheap. Use a digital balance with at least 0.1 g accuracy for the copper sulfate pentahydrate, the amount of the citric acid is not super-critical.

Be careful to use the copper sulfate pentahydrate (deep blue crystals), copper sulfate is also available as anhydrate (colorless to slightly blue), which is significantly more potent and would require a modified recipe.

CuSO4 x 5H2O, probably you will buy way more than required to treat your fish. You can grow nice crystals from the remaining copper salt ;-)

I would argue to use copper only in case of diagnosed disease and would not opt for prophylactic treatment in healthy looking animals. Any treatment is stressful for the fish, and the rule "less is more" often applies.

Edit: To add another dosing help: For every 10 gallons tank water you need to add 3.7 ml of this copper solution to get a copper concentration of 0.1 mg/l. Please dont go straight from zero to 0.1 mg/l, add at least one more level inbetween when ramping up.
Best,
Christoph

Humblefish · Mar 1, 2018

Thanks @Christoph for the additional info!

A quick Walmart search turned up this: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Citric-Acid-1-Pound-Food-Grade-Non-GMO-100-Pure/152305739

"Food Grade" and "100% Pure" would probably make it good to go for our purposes. ;)

However, could you recommend which copper sulfate pentahydrate to use from here? https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/136-0200819-8841975?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=copper+sulfate+pentahydrate

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 1, 2018

I would think any of the 99% purity copper sulfate products are suitable.

I would also expect that copper (II) chloride is also suitable. Any reason to think not?

Daniel@R2R · Mar 1, 2018

Good info, Bobby! This is one of those things we all hope we'll never need but should all be aware of. It will come in helpful in a bind.

Christoph · Mar 1, 2018

The wal mart citric acid looks good to go!

Regarding the copper sulfate pentahydrate, this looks like a good source:

https://www.amazon.com/Copper-Sulfa...8-20&keywords=copper+sulfate+pentahydrate+lab

Unlike many other sellers they are stating purity and the price seems ok.

@Randy: I also think that CuCl2 could be used as copper source... but the sulfate pentahydrate has imo the best availability.

Best,
Christoph

Humblefish · Mar 1, 2018

I will be setting up a QT, just for testing this formula out on fish and seeing how it compares to using Cupramine, Coppersafe, etc.

Will detail the results in this thread.

Greenstreet.1 · Mar 1, 2018

Following. What would you guys say the shelf life is after mixing ?

Christoph · Mar 1, 2018

Greenstreet.1 said:
Following. What would you guys say the shelf life is after mixing ?

As far as you dont see any precipitate or change in color the solution is fine. I would assume its stable for at least a year.

Justin Thain · Mar 1, 2018

Stupid question, but what are the “claims/benefits” of using this over other copper treatments. As noted one of the cons that I see is that it has a tighter therapeutic operating range.

I ask because I honestly don’t know which is better, or in which case you might use one over the other

Humblefish · Mar 1, 2018

Justin Thain said:
Stupid question, but what are the “claims/benefits” of using this over other copper treatments. As noted one of the cons that I see is that it has a tighter therapeutic operating range.

I ask because I honestly don’t know which is better, or in which case you might use one over the other

To be frank, I am beginning to distrust the mfgs of chelated copper: Coppersafe & Copper Power. Plus, it's difficult to accurately test for both of those.

Seachem Cupramine is fine, but not all fish tolerate that well.

So, this is just me wanting to explore another option.

Justin Thain · Mar 1, 2018

Humblefish said:
To be frank, I am beginning to distrust the mfgs of chelated copper: Coppersafe & Copper Power. Plus, it's difficult to accurately test for both of those.

Seachem Cupramine is fine, but not all fish tolerate that well.

So, this is just me wanting to explore another option.

Perfect, thanks for the info!!!

klp · Mar 2, 2018

Humblefish said:
First off, many thanks to @Christoph for providing me with this information in the first place. The below "recipe" can also be found in a book by Gerald Bassleer: https://www.bassleer.com/over-gerald-bassleer/

Into 1 liter of RODI water add:

4 grams Copper(II) sulfate pentahydrate (CuSO4.5H2O)

AND

0.25 gram Citric acid - the acid acts as a stabilizer to the copper in solution. Never substitute the citric acid with ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) since it will render the copper way more toxic. :eek:

Everything should dissolve nicely giving you a slightly bluish solution.

9.8 mL of this solution is necessary to bring 100 Liters (26.4172 US gallons) of tank water to 0.1 mg/L copper. Therapeutic range is ~ 0.15 to 0.25 mg/L, but I would try to stay below 0.20 for sensitive species. Can easily be measured with Salifert copper test kit.

^^ The above might be an option to try for those struggling with commercially available copper products. o_O It is "old school copper", which isn't used much anymore (except by public aquariums, research institutions, etc.) because it isn't very "user friendly" and has a narrow therapeutic range. So be sure to pay close attention to detail when mixing everything & dosing. I will begin looking for online sources to buy the above listed ingredients; @Randy Holmes-Farley might already know of some.

Another great bit of information. Interested to see how it tests and works for you.

drstardust · Mar 2, 2018

Humblefish said:
To be frank, I am beginning to distrust the mfgs of chelated copper: Coppersafe & Copper Power. Plus, it's difficult to accurately test for both of those.

Any particular reason you say that?

drstardust · Mar 2, 2018

Also, will fish be more tolerant, do you think, of this copper solution than commercially-available ionic copper such as cupramine?

drstardust · Mar 2, 2018

drstardust said:
Any particular reason you say that?

Nevermind, just saw your rant on the other thread ;) However, my second question stands, as I remain curious

Humblefish · Mar 2, 2018

drstardust said:
Also, will fish be more tolerant, do you think, of this copper solution than commercially-available ionic copper such as cupramine?

The answer to this question remains to be seen. In every experiment I always hope for the best, but am prepared for the worst, so that I am never disappointed. ;)