Ich Again!!!!

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey Jay, sorry don’t mean to bother you but could you take a look at this blue tang I have in QT, when I got him his fins were slightly beat up which are healing now, same thing with his scalpels near the tail but I saw this white line across him and some on his face, I often do see some color changes on him he goes from light to dark but I just want to make sure he’s healthy. Also this other fish, he changes colors too but will keep this white spotted avatar for long periods sometime, what’s the deal with that?

The purple tang has a mild case of head and lateral line erosion (HLLE). While that can get worse, it isn't going to be fatal. I'm not sure about the rabbitfish - that is a night / stress response color change. Could there be something in the environment that is causing stress?

Jay

 

[guna24]

Hope, all is well. what about Polyplap reef medic? any success for anyone? as it states reef safe medic for white spot. I have been used this medic (couple of times) quickly once ich spotted on the fish. (used as per the direction) I assume that ICH was gone, since my ich magnet (Powder blue tang) became normal. However, I witnessed my hammer coral colony stressed a bit for 2 days after using this medic.

I'm not sure if medic is working out for someone. Who knows, ICH may still present in my aquarium, my fish may have good immune system to overcome ICH. QT is best practice, however 90% of the tank does have ICH present.

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

Just to add:

Do NOT increase the temperature in the DT! That is bad advice, based on treatment of freshwater ich, which is a different organism. If you raise the temperature in a marine tank to 82, you are taking it to the "sweet spot" for marine ich and it makes the infection worse.

You mentioned thinking you could see ich swimming in the tank - that is something else, you cannot see ich theronts without a microscope.

I agree with copper for all fish and let the DT lay fallow. Even if your existing fish never really show symptoms, they could be harboring it, and it could then attack any new fish you add later on.

Jay

To be clear here, you said raising DT to 82 is bad? Many others say to keep tank 80 or 80.6 or higher for effective fallow period? Anyone have opinions here? I assumed the higher the temp in fallow the better.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

To be clear here, you said raising DT to 82 is bad? Many others say to keep tank 80 or 80.6 or higher for effective fallow period? Anyone have opinions here? I assumed the higher the temp in fallow the better.

Oh, perhaps I misunderstood. Too many pages to this thread (grin). I thought the original poster said they were going to raise the temperature of the DT with fish being treated for marine ich - I hear that all the time, but it is exactly the wrong thing to do. 82 degrees is the "sweet spot" for marine ich, it would just makes the protozoans replicate faster and makes the infection more difficult to treat. For the same reason, running at 82 F. in a fishless fallow period speeds up the life cycle and shortens the time.

Jay

 

[situming123]

if fish only. put copper to 2.5-3ppm. this is high lvl but good for ur fish what is looking now. raise the temperature to 82-83 degree. they will be good

 

[MnFish1]

if fish only. put copper to 2.5-3ppm. this is high lvl but good for ur fish what is looking now. raise the temperature to 82-83 degree. they will be good

NO this is bad advice IMHO - ust follow directions.

 

[situming123]

NO this is bad advice IMHO - ust follow directions.

well. this is the way i use for ich treatment. works every time.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

well. this is the way i use for ich treatment. works every time.

Even copper power and coppersafe have fairly narrow margins of safety. Some species of fish will not tolerate 3.0 ppm Raising the water temperature for Cryptocaryon is the wrong thing to do. That advice has been around for ages, but it is specifically of benefit for freshwater ich, a different organism. The preferred water temperature for Cryptocaryon to reproduce is 81 to 82 F. Higher temps just makes eradicating it that much more difficult, more theronts in the water to attach to the fish. 78 F. is a better choice for tropical marine fish.

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

if fish only. put copper to 2.5-3ppm. this is high lvl but good for ur fish what is looking now. raise the temperature to 82-83 degree. they will be good

Absolutely not. You are overdosing and lowering oxygen , all in one.
Please revisit protocols for protection of your livestock.

 

[situming123]

Absolutely not. You are overdosing and lowering oxygen , all in one.
Please revisit protocols for protection of your livestock.

this is the way i use to get rid of ich. not just once or twice. it helps my fishes all the time. im not trying to fight. but i won’t doubt the way that alreadly worked for me and listen to someone else's suggestion.

yes. the oxygen will become lower, so it needs extra oxygen from addition pump

 

[situming123]

Even copper power and coppersafe have fairly narrow margins of safety. Some species of fish will not tolerate 3.0 ppm Raising the water temperature for Cryptocaryon is the wrong thing to do. That advice has been around for ages, but it is specifically of benefit for freshwater ich, a different organism. The preferred water temperature for Cryptocaryon to reproduce is 81 to 82 F. Higher temps just makes eradicating it that much more difficult, more theronts in the water to attach to the fish. 78 F. is a better choice for tropical marine fish.

Jay

you are right. not all fishes can hold on 3.0ppm. it usually should go with 2.0-2.5, but his is blue tang. it can hang on it.

 

[MnFish1]

this is the way i use to get rid of ich. not just once or twice. it helps my fishes all the time. im not trying to fight. but i won’t doubt the way that alreadly worked for me and listen to someone else's suggestion.

yes. the oxygen will become lower, so it needs extra oxygen from addition pump

I also don't want to argue with you - And of course, you can choose to do whatever you want. No problem. That said - When a leading fish disease/Quarantine expert - along with others with decades of marine experience myself included suggest to the OP that this is bad advice, I would hope you would take that into account and give the advice opposite to yours some credence. There are 2 facts stated that are not opinion - they are facts:

1. Higher temperature causes a more rapid reproduction of cryptocaryon
2. Copper is a potentially toxic medication - and this toxicity is not ONLY species specific - it also depends on the health, age, etc of whatever fish you're treating. I.e. You cannot just say 'its tang xxx' - it will be fine - that is not necessarily true.

BTW - welcome to the site - and again I don't want this to come across as attacking you. It is the job of the Fish Medic group to educate as well.

 

[situming123]

I also don't want to argue with you - And of course, you can choose to do whatever you want. No problem. That said - When a leading fish disease/Quarantine expert - along with others with decades of marine experience myself included suggest to the OP that this is bad advice, I would hope you would take that into account and give the advice opposite to yours some credence. There are 2 facts stated that are not opinion - they are facts:

1. Higher temperature causes a more rapid reproduction of cryptocaryon
2. Copper is a potentially toxic medication - and this toxicity is not ONLY species specific - it also depends on the health, age, etc of whatever fish you're treating. I.e. You cannot just say 'its tang xxx' - it will be fine - that is not necessarily true.

BTW - welcome to the site - and again I don't want this to come across as attacking you. It is the job of the Fish Medic group to educate as well.

Higher temperature causes a more rapid reproduction of cryptocaryon

This is what Im trying to do. let them grow as fast as they can and die in the copper and make the treatment with short period. cuz i dont want fiahes in copper for too long. just my perosonal opinion

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Higher temperature causes a more rapid reproduction of cryptocaryon

This is what Im trying to do. let them grow as fast as they can and die in the copper and make the treatment with short period. cuz i dont want fiahes in copper for too long. just my perosonal opinion

Just to clarify, here is an excerpt from my Fish Diseases book:


Hyper-temperature

For many years, raising the water temperature was given as one component for treating Cryptocaryon. The theory was that since the medications are most effective against the small tomite/theront stage, raising the water temperature would speed up the life cycle and get the parasite to that stage sooner. This is a complete fallacy. Cryptocaryon actually prefers warmer temperatures, making it more difficult to treat at higher temperatures. Medications used to treat Cryptocaryon, such as copper, do not work instantaneously. This means that the higher water temperature allows more tomites to develop and reinfect the fish before the medication can complete its cure. If this happens at the exponential phase of the Cryptocaryon life cycle, it can push the fish over the edge. In addition, Cryptocaryon can impair the fish’s ability to extract oxygen from the water. Water at higher temperatures has less of an ability to dissolve oxygen in it, lowering the oxygen concentration, exacerbating the problem. Raising the water temperature does often help in treating freshwater ich, Ichthyophthirius, but that is a different species of parasite.

Jay