Lets Discuss Ethics in the Hobby

[exnisstech]

Yes and no.

This is more to see how much common ground we all have.

At the end of the day, we are at the mercy of the mods. I get that. Would just be nice to have a few common things everyone considers ethical or not ethical to go off of.

End of day, there will always be differences and that is what makes things great. Well, provided it can lead to a civil discussion and people can meet in the middle or can see others points of view. To much of an optimist here lol.

If that makes sense.

I think stomping on a hermit crab opposed to freezing it is ethical. Of course rehoming it would be preferred.
I toss asterina star fish in the garbage. My Gal tells me I shouldn't
There are just way to many creatures in our tanks that some people welcome and others do not that I don't see how a list could be compiled.

 

[Mackey]

Considering Ethics are different for everyone, I'm going to put my Blue tang in a Fish Bowl!

 

[Lavey29]

I was born in 1972 and I am 35. That does not equal 2022. You were wrong

I was born in 1964 and am 35 also. Thanks for showing me the light.

 

[Lavey29]

Considering Ethics are different for everyone, I'm going to put my Blue tang in a Fish Bowl!

It's already been done here on R2R.

 

[Mackey]

It's already been done here on R2R.

Heaven help us............

 

[Mackey]

To me there is a standard of ethics, don't kill fish and don't put them in too small tanks, and the same
for inverts as long as they play nice. I do not know where this code comes from, because it has no religious backing ,but for whatever reason we have it. I feel this convo is asking the question "where does morality come from", which is a question that is far, far more expansive than I would think this forum could have. Because if we follow what one person says of kicking puppies is just one's moral prerogative , then we could then say "what about theft, murder or even genocide?" are those moral prerogative too? And if we say that it we can have morals as long as we don't hurt anyone, Isn't that just your moral prerogative?

I think there is a standard of ethics, and some have a different Idea where it comes from, but it still exists.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

To me there is a standard of ethics, don't kill fish and don't put them in too small tanks, and the same
for inverts as long as they play nice. I do not know where this code comes from, because it has no religious backing ,but for whatever reason we have it. I feel this convo is asking the question "where does morality come from", which is a question that is far, far more expansive than I would think this forum could have. Because if we follow what one person says of kicking puppies is just one's moral prerogative , then we could then say "what about theft, murder or even genocide?" are those moral prerogative too? And if we say that it we can have morals as long as we don't hurt anyone, Isn't that just your moral prerogative?

I am not asking where morality comes from. Could care less where ones beliefs come from.

I am asking for examples of what one considers ethical and not ethical in relation to keeping a reef tank/fowler. That simple.

With that said, your first segment is a good example of your ethics on tanks. Killing fish is unethical and sticking them in small tanks is unethical.

Thanks for the feedback on those 2 points.

 

[d2mini]

Not quite beneficial, but I see your point.

I always do me and only me. So no issues there. I am just curious as to what others think, what the mods thinks, etc.

Yes we keep things in a glass box, we keep wild animals that were domesticated years and years ago, we eat animal, we eat plants. One can argue that none of those are ethical. That is not what I am trying to do. I could care less about the arguing or the "you do you " thing. I want o see what others consider ethical.

Heck, maybe me asking that is not ethical to someone.

Either way, thanks for stopping by.

What wasn't beneficial? You asked for our opinions and that's mine.
What I said is absolutely true. I mean I guess if you are buying only tank raised specimens, then you may have an argument otherwise, to some extent. But the reality is that when it comes down to it, there is nothing all that ethical about what we do. Just various levels of unethicalness. LOL

My point with the you/me comment is that there is no right answer here and people will be all over the spectrum so you just have to ignore the noise and do what you feel is best.

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

Yes it's totally a fish cosmonaut thing and ethical via justification. Lol
Omg. Sorry I couldn't help it. Lol
D

 

[Eagle_Steve]

What wasn't beneficial? You asked for our opinions and that's mine.
What I said is absolutely true. I mean I guess if you are buying only tank raised specimens, then you may have an argument otherwise, to some extent. But the reality is that when it comes down to it, there is nothing all that ethical about what we do. Just various levels of unethicalness. LOL

My point with the you/me comment is that there is no right answer here and people will be all over the spectrum so you just have to ignore the noise and do what you feel is best.

I worded that wrong, but the first point of critters in glass box is what I was referring to. We all know we have mostly wild critters in a small sliver of what they came from or should be in.

To the other point, I want to know the answers, as there is no right or wrong. I want everyone to chime in and give their examples of what is ethical or not ethical. That is all.

 

[kingoftheHiLLpeople]

I buy berghias knowing after they do their job they die. Im logging on to purchase more. What is their lifespan in my tank? Not sure but id imagine not long.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

What wasn't beneficial? You asked for our opinions and that's mine.
What I said is absolutely true. I mean I guess if you are buying only tank raised specimens, then you may have an argument otherwise, to some extent. But the reality is that when it comes down to it, there is nothing all that ethical about what we do. Just various levels of unethicalness.

Part of what you said is objective truth. Our boxes are not as big as the ocean.

Part of what you said is your opinion and we should not conflate the two.

 

[FishOkay]

What wasn't beneficial? You asked for our opinions and that's mine.
What I said is absolutely true. I mean I guess if you are buying only tank raised specimens, then you may have an argument otherwise, to some extent. But the reality is that when it comes down to it, there is nothing all that ethical about what we do. Just various levels of unethicalness. LOL

My point with the you/me comment is that there is no right answer here and people will be all over the spectrum so you just have to ignore the noise and do what you feel is best.

What about clownfish and anemone only aquarium that sounds pretty ethical lol they rarely stray from their anemone in the wild anyway and when they do it's only a couple meters for food so really we can recreate that quite easily in the aquarium and they'd know no different lol infact I can imagine they'd be grateful. Just to throw that curveball out there

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

To me, continually adding new fish (that may become food) to my anenome system is ethical.

To me, choosing Not to quarrentine new fish into an established system is ethical, and very much the wrong approach for the greater good.



We are bound by the TOS. Discussions being closed, and most even here in this thread can't bring themselves to say what They believe is ethical, and what is not.

 

[jabberwock]

First world problems...

 

[Mackey]

I am not asking where morality comes from. Could care less where ones beliefs come from.

I am asking for examples of what one considers ethical and not ethical in relation to keeping a reef tank/fowler. That simple.

With that said, your first segment is a good example of your ethics on tanks. Killing fish is unethical and sticking them in small tanks is unethical.

Thanks for the feedback on those 2 points.

So what I was saying is that I saw people making wider implacations on ethics e.g kicking puppies, which would be a discussion on a philosophy forum not this.

But I guess at a certain point people have different morals, there was one time I had a EVIL YW Goby who killed everything, cost me over 200 dollars worth of fish and inverts, plus some fish I had grown very close to. Needless to say, I needed to get rid of him. My mom suggested throw him in the toilet or otherwise euthanize him, or sell him. I thought about both and I ended up setting up a tank for just him. I could perfectly see a person doing both (besides throwing in the toilet, plz use clove oil!) but to me I couldn't sell a fish who I thought might murder other fish and cause another aquarist the heartbreak it caused me, or kill him.

 

[WVNed]

I posted
This thread will now be closed

The mods close threads that upset people. It can be about most anything.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

I posted
This thread will now be closed

The mods close threads that upset people. It can be about most anything.

That's the Be Nice clause, which is also completely subjective.

At least this clause, there is a Possibility of reaching an understanding or knowing where the line is.

With Be Nice, the power has been handed over to the "victim" and the report button.

To me, giving objectively wrong and stupid advice is not nice. Is that reportable? There's no hope for that one.

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

So why do you still have a tank? Supporting the "barbaric" stuff just keeps it going.

That was just an example and not a real question. Please feel free to line out some things you think are and are not ethical.

Would love to see something besides "the industry sucks" to be added to this discussion. Albeit one sided with me being the only one to list out things I feel are ethical or not ethical.

It's not about ethics for me, I can care less frankly about what other people think. I know what I typed and I believe it wholeheartedly, but it's not going to change my mind on aquaria.

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

First world problems...

This!