Low Maintenance Tank Build: PROBLEMS

[wjcastiglione]

Hey everyone, this is a long post but be patient with me.. I'm going to try to lay this story out as quickly and organized as possible.

I was previously in the hobby - I had a nano for about 3 years - and I just got so tired of the maintenance and testing.. mixing salt, blah blah blah - it got real old real quick.

Ive always wanted a tank back - so when I came back to the hobby I set out to be as low maintenance of a tank as possible. I knew to accomplish this, I'd need to be a stickler on maintenance - and I also knew that I'd be buying both my RODI & Saltwater premixed from the LFS. I looked into the Trident NP - and actually bought one - but never hooked it up because after reading reviews, it seems its very unreliable and may be more hassle than it's worth.

With the exceptions of 3 fish deaths, everything has gone flawlessly. The tank is thriving utilizing this low maintenance approach.

As of Today - Tank has been running for 5 months with no serious algae blooms, issues - the corals are all alive well and thriving. The fish that are currently in the tank are alive and well and thriving.

Tank Setup:
RedSea Max Nano 26 gallon Penisula.
Redsea ATO
Chiller
100W heater
Neptune w/ Temp, ORP, & PH Probes
CO2 Scrubber
Powerhead

Tank Location: My Office. This means the tank is typically alone on saturday and sunday (I may go in occasionally) and occasionally a day or two here or there - I try to never leave it alone for more than two days.

Here were my goals:
1. Start immediately, no cycling the tank.
2. No testing.
3. No Dosing.
4. Choose a simple stock list that can survive off of water changes alone.

Current filtration methods:
1. filter floss (changed after every single feeding to reduce nutrients)
2. Carbon (changed monthly)
3. Large HOB Skimmer (does not pull much, but will if necessary - I'm intentionally keeping excess nutrients low)
4. Seeded ceramic media in back chamber

Fish Stock List (in order of stocking order):
1. Clown
2. Clown
3. Flameback Angel (Deceased - 1st death)
4. Clean up crew (snails, hermits, etc - most are alive, hermits have taken out a couple snails)
5. Royal Gramma
6. Diamond back goby (Deceased - 3rd death)
7. Firefish (Deceased - 2nd death)

Coral Stock List:
1.GSP
2. Multiple Mushrooms
3. 3-4 different leathers
4. Some Zoas
5. Colt Coral

Maintenance:
1. 5 Gallon water change (reef crystals) every two weeks without failure (and after each death) - roughly 25% of overall volume of system
2. Change Filter floss after every feeding.
3. Change carbon every month
4. Clean skimmer container every two weeks during water change
5. Add copepods every 6 weeks or so

Feeding schedule:
1. I feed on MWF - alternating flake or pellet. I let them eat as much as they can until the fish stop - and then I turn on the pumps, wash the excess food out, and replace the filter floss. (I am not starving my fish - the clown fish and gramma in the tank have about doubled in size. Reef Builders has a whole video segment stating this is enough and theyve had many tanks thrive in these conditions. Over feeding is just as big of a problem as underfeeding.. so I'm trying to walk the fine line)

Time line of events:
1. Day one - Fritz turbo start (way more than bottle recommendation - let ceramic media sit in it for 6+ hours, let it sit in water of tank and circulate for 6+ hours). Live rock, live sand. Add a clown fish.
2. After about two weeks of the first clown fish thriving, added second clown fish.
3. After about two weeks of both clown fish thriving, added flameback angel (this may have been a mistake, it may have been a little small for the tank.)
4. After about two weeks of all fish doing well, there was some algae on the sandbed - not bad, just a green dusting - added a diamond goby to sift the sand. This is where the problems started.

Death 1: When goby went into tank - it was on a friday. Goby was being picked on by the flameback - but, the goby dug himself a hole under the rock - and was hiding just fine.. I figured he'd do that for a couple days anyway since he was new to the tank. I came in on Monday... to my surprise, the flameback was dead against the powerhead... not the goby. I chalked it up to the flameback probably had it coming and moved on. Did a 5 gallon water change.

5. After a couple weeks of stability, I added royal gramma to tank to replace flameback.
6. After a couple more weeks of stability, I added the firefish - This was to be my complete stock list.

Death 2: Tank was fine for about a month. Until the week of Thanksgiving. Came into the office on Wednesday - fed the fish, all fish were alive and happy and eating - all getting along.. all corals happy.. no signs of disease. Came back on friday - firefish was dead against powerhead.. Weird, 5 gallon water change.

7. Came back to office on Monday & Tuesday - all fish happy, corals happy - no signs of disease, no issues - all fish ate. Everything is happy.

Death 3: Came in wednesday morning, Goby was dead against the powerhead.. did a 5 gallon water change... Today is saturday - everything is happy and healthy again.


So ---- whats my problem here? Again: I have had no algae blooms to note... no corals have ever been upset.. no fish have ever gasped for air or showed signs or symptoms of disease. (please dont tell me to test... the whole point of this is to try to avoid testing):

- Do I have a bully? The Royal Gramma does kind of hold a large cave as his own - but I've never heard of a royal gramma being aggressive and I've never seen the Royal Gramma display any sort of aggression ... I do know that clown fish can be aggressive - as my last tank had the meanest SOB in the world - but these clownfish have showed no signs of aggression that I've seen

- Did I overstock the tank perhaps causing aggression?

- What is my silent killer? I would imagine if the tank water perimeters were way off, the corals would suffer, or the tank would spike an algae bloom of some sort - and the fish that have remained in the tank that continue to be happy and healthy - wouldve died too. or atleast showed symptoms of suffering.

- Is my LACK of nutrients killing the fish? Should I pull back on filter floss changes?

I PROMISE that if this continues to be a failure in the next couple months, I will resort back to traditional testing - or shut the tank down and re-home the fish. It is not my goal to continue to keep killing livestock - I feel bad when it happens - I'm just trying not to over complicate this hobby - and trying to spot issues with the tank before it happens by utilizing the symptoms of the tank and what I can see with my eyes rather than be a slave to testing.

 

[Reinboordt]

I’m pretty new here so no expert. I’ve kept saltwater reef and fish only 10+ years ago so I’ve been out of the game. Hoping to set up a system in the next few months!

I think by not testing and keeping it as low maintenance as possible it is impossible for you to know how well things are going? This is how people kept saltwater aquariums in the 80s & 90s. We have so many relatively inexpensive tools now to make it easier for us.

26gallons is still a very small system. In terms of stability larger tanks are always more forgiving to new hobbyists. If my goal was to create a low maintenance 26g aquarium I would probably only have 1-2 fish. The more fish the more bioload and therefore maintenance (and testing) you will need to do.

until the cycle completes and the tank stabilizes you should not be adding many fish even with the bacteria in a bottle. It looks like a case of too much too soon to me. 2x clowns, 1x flame angel and a goby in a 26 gallon that’s 4 weeks old was the problem. Even bacteria in a bottle takes time to replicate and establish in a tank environment.

I respect your goal and I believe it’s possible but the initial set up period of the tank is not a time to be impatient. This is a hobby of patience for sure.

You should probably just keep the 2 clowns and the gramma, inverts can take care of the sand algae for you. Good luck!

 

[rtparty]

First thing is that tank is too small for any angel or a diamond goby. Diamond gobies need a lot of food to survive and most of their food comes from the sand. I’ve found they are far more successful in large tank with lots of sand and area for them to hunt and eat.

A 26g is about maxed with 3-4 fish. Couple clowns and a royal gramma are a decent stocking.

 

[Tahoe61]

I would just give the tank more time. It's been my experience that smaller tanks have a tipping point, adding just one more fish is just a little too much for that tanks particular ecosystem at that point in time.
You're very precise and detail oriented. You seem to have a great grasp on the basics. I wouldn't over think it, I would just give it more time.
With all that said you have 3 fish with strong personalities. More timid fish can feel stressed even when other fish are simply posturing. There is no room to flee to in small tanks.

 

[wjcastiglione]

First thing is that tank is too small for any angel or a diamond goby.

Ok if no diamond goby - I need an efficient sand sifter. Any suggestions? The purpose of the diamond goby was to clean up the sand bed for me and fit the overall low maintenance of the tank.

 

[Reinboordt]

Ok if no diamond goby - I need an efficient sand sifter. Any suggestions? The purpose of the diamond goby was to clean up the sand bed for me and fit the overall low maintenance of the tank.

I suggested inverts for you.

Nassarius snails will do a good job with your sand bed and have a significantly lower bioload than a fish. A tuxedo urchin will work for the rocks as will some other species of snails. If you get an urchin be sure that your rocks are glued or very stable as they can dislodge rocks.

 

[wjcastiglione]

I suggested inverts for you.

Nassarius snails will do a good job with your sand bed and have a significantly lower bioload than a fish. A tuxedo urchin will work for the rocks as will some other species of snails. If you get an urchin be sure that your rocks are glued or very stable as they can dislodge rocks.

I already have nassarius snails - they dont do much.

 

[dansyr]

I already have nassarius snails - they dont do much.

Strawberry conchs (or any small conch) would be good. i have 1 in each 20gal for years and they're happy and keep sandbed turned.

I do agree with others, you already have two damsels (clowns) in a 25g, any other fish (for low maintenance) should be veeeery docile and habitat restricted (think clown gobies with their fav perching spots, maybe small shrimp goby combo?)

 

[exnisstech]

You don't want to test anything so why have an apex and monitor pH and orp (I have no idea what orp is) ? Just curious because simple to me means no controllers and ignoring pH and orp lol. Its how I run all three of my tanks. I do test tho. I don't know how anyone can be succesful without at least testing alk, NO3 and PO4 once a week or so along with calcium on occasion unless tank is a fowlr. Maybe once a tank is mature and the reefer l knows what to look for but in a new tank it just sounds like a recipe for failure but maybe I'm missing something by keeping things simple?

 

[Paul B]

I do a lot less maintenance than you do and my reef is over 50 years old and overstocked.
I think you are changing way to much water. Water gets better with age, up to a point and new water is stressful

I also would not use any filter floss or change it. The floss is holding the bacteria that you want. The bacteria does all the filtering and you are removing them. Use rocks in that filter or just use it for circulation.

I also would not use any carbon and I feel all the food you are using is wrong.

Don't use any dry flakes or pellets and instead, use frozen foods like LRS or Rods foods. On weekends you can use dry foods if you must.

Try to get some live whiteworms or fresh or freshly frozen clams. The tank needs to mature before it becomes stable and most of your methods are preventing that.

I also don't test or hardly dose anything and I only change some water 3 or 4 times a year.

 

[snorklr]

" I want my tank to be as low maintenance as possible...to do that I have to be a stickler on maintenance" ???

 

[Paul B]

I don't know how anyone can be succesful without at least testing alk, NO3 and PO4 once a week or so along with calcium on occasion unless tank is a fowlr.

" I want my tank to be as low maintenance as possible...to do that I have to be a stickler on maintenance" ???

I really don't test for anything except for maybe once or twice a year only so I have something to write about.

But now I don't have any SPS and don't want them any more. :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:

 

[exnisstech]

I really don't test for anything except for maybe once or twice a year only so I have something to write about.

But now I don't have any SPS and don't want them any more. :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:

Maybe once a tank is mature and the reefer l knows what to look for but in a new tank it just sounds like a recipe for failure but maybe I'm missing something by keeping things simple?

I have a hunch your tank is mature enough you can tell if something is off ;)

 

[Troylee]

I have a hunch your tank is mature enough you can tell if something is off ;)

Or he just might be! :zany-face:

 

[wjcastiglione]

" I want my tank to be as low maintenance as possible...to do that I have to be a stickler on maintenance" ???

It takes me approximately 10-15 minutes to change the water every two weeks... how much time do you waste sitting around waiting for your test vials to give you a "hopefully" accurate result?

 

[wjcastiglione]

You don't want to test anything so why have an apex and monitor pH and orp (I have no idea what orp is) ?

I utilize the apex for other reasons:
1. maintenance, easily turning stuff on and off
2. monitoring my temperature - as my office is really hot and I have both a chiller and a heater - and they seem to always be working
3. monitoring my PH - due to low air flow, my PH is very low - therefore, I have to use a CO2 scrubber - which allows me to know when the media needs to be changed.

The probes just came with it... the ORP probe is kind of pointless to be honest.

 

[Troylee]

I utilize the apex for other reasons:
1. maintenance, easily turning stuff on and off
2. monitoring my temperature - as my office is really hot and I have both a chiller and a heater - and they seem to always be working
3. monitoring my PH - due to low air flow, my PH is very low - therefore, I have to use a CO2 scrubber - which allows me to know when the media needs to be changed.

The probes just came with it... the ORP probe is kind of pointless to be honest.

Why not just add a trident if the whole point of this thread is to get away from testing? I feel it would be your best friend honestly lol… you already got the apex and all sorts of stuff going on so it’s sorta hands off but not Maintence free as you posted in the title.

 

[Reign1]

I utilize the apex for other reasons:
1. maintenance, easily turning stuff on and off
2. monitoring my temperature - as my office is really hot and I have both a chiller and a heater - and they seem to always be working
3. monitoring my PH - due to low air flow, my PH is very low - therefore, I have to use a CO2 scrubber - which allows me to know when the media needs to be changed.

The probes just came with it... the ORP probe is kind of pointless to be honest.

Yeah a bit strange someone asking why you got it. MANY people use it to monitor . I dont truly trust it to control ..
Piece of mine when you are in another country that you can tell your pumps are on and temp/Ph is stable ..

 

[BeanAnimal]

Do you have a cleaning company? Spraying something in office or tank, air freshener, anti-bacterial, etc.

You can't rule out disease, but we have no way to diagnose.

Low oxygen events (orp is not going to really directly show this) due to reduced flow at night, lights out, etc?

We would need more info to move diagnosis in any direction other than wild speculation.

 

[wjcastiglione]

I do a lot less maintenance than you do and my reef is over 50 years old and overstocked.
I think you are changing way to much water. Water gets better with age, up to a point and new water is stressful

I also would not use any filter floss or change it. The floss is holding the bacteria that you want. The bacteria does all the filtering and you are removing them. Use rocks in that filter or just use it for circulation.

I also would not use any carbon and I feel all the food you are using is wrong.

Don't use any dry flakes or pellets and instead, use frozen foods like LRS or Rods foods. On weekends you can use dry foods if you must.

Try to get some live whiteworms or fresh or freshly frozen clams. The tank needs to mature before it becomes stable and most of your methods are preventing that.

I also don't test or hardly dose anything and I only change some water 3 or 4 times a year.

OK - lets talk more about this - because you're the guy I want to learn from - not all the people having a heart attack because I dont test.

1. I hear you on the food, I wish I could feed frozen foods - the problem is: Since this is a nano - I'd only need like 1/4 cube at a time - and my tank is at my office. I share the office freezer with other people - and I just dont think it's very friendly to have smelly 3/4 pieces of frozen fish in there... Are you aware of any manufacturers that make the cubes in smaller sizes? Where I could use the entire cube in one use?

2. Did you start out your tank from day 1 like this? or were you more maintenance oriented in the beginning - and once the tank stablized you've taken your foot off the gas then?