The Garden -- Rakies shallow SPS cube

[Tahoe61]

Congrats on getting the upper hand on the Dino!!!!!!!

You have some very nice frags.

 

[Rakie]

Congrats on getting the upper hand on the Dino!!!!!!!

You have some very nice frags.

Thank you! It's nice to be rid of them. They really stopped my whole tank dead in it's tracks. now i'm looking forward to things coloring back up and resuming growth.

 

[Rakie]

what seemed to be a big game changer for me was re-establishing bacteria, running heavy Carbon (immediately stopped growth, allowed CUC + Bacteria + Chaeto to outperform it), adding a fuge, and turning off the skimmer.

I basically gave everything a chance to out compete the dinos, and they did. Within 3-4 days of a new batch of Carbon they just started withering away.

After Dinos Today
_____________________________________

Frag rack came out dark

During Dinos
________________________________________

 

[Rakie]

Some basic maintenance today and found my holy grail T5 combo.

Dino's still gone, but tank seems to be going through a post-dinos case of the uglies.. I've got some branching algae that seems to sprout up everywhere. I don't see any runners from it, and it hasn't taken over. It's semi-slow growing and easy to manually remove. It seems like a type of Bryopsis -- It doesn't look like bryopsis, but my gut is telling me it's some species of this algae type..

Algae: In case it IS some slow growing bryopsis acquired from a frag plug somewhere I've been raising Magnesium -- I'm currently at 1700 mag.

Corals: So corals are holding weak colors right now. After 6-8 weeks of Dinos and me changing all the water params while killing said Dinos, corals became unhappy. What can you do, it's expected -- Some corals initially colored back up a tiny bit, but I noticed instead of my corals turning brown, they've begun to turn purple. The only thing I could find on this was potentially photo inhibition. Coincidentally, this issue began right when I added my reef brite fixture. So I turned off the RB to see what happens. The RB is okay, but it's not what I was looking for so no loss turning it off for a bit.

We'll see how the coral shapes up as time goes on.

T5 Bulb Combo: Finally found a bulb combo I truly enjoy -- in my 6x24 fixture, without RB, I'm really enjoying the color I get from 3 Blue+, 1 Coral+, 1 Purple+, 1 ABS. It's more than blue enough for me, the spectrum is nice and rounded out visually, coral color (while still unhappy) looks the best it has in awhile.. So i'm pretty happy with it.

And Sadly: Finally came to terms with the frags / mini colonies I've lost during the dinos. It was much more than I thought initially, as some of them were a real slow STN process... I ripped out the following;
- Mini colonies lost: Banana / 20k Leagues Lokani, Softball Sized Birdsnest (First SPS), Red Dragon, Green & Purple Aussie Table, 3 tone purple Aussie acro, GARF Bonsai
- Frags lost: 2x Sunset Mille, 2x ASD Rainbow Mille, JF Fox Flame, PC Rainbow, RRA Aussie Gold, WWC Red Shortcake, Strawberry Lemonade, 3x Green Slimer

The lost Mini Colonies were a complete loss -- Thankfully, the frags lost were just frags -- I still have the mothers of those corals, not that they're large mothers -_-

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Some basic maintenance today and found my holy grail T5 combo.

Dino's still gone, but tank seems to be going through a post-dinos case of the uglies.. I've got some branching algae that seems to sprout up everywhere. I don't see any runners from it, and it hasn't taken over. It's semi-slow growing and easy to manually remove. It seems like a type of Bryopsis -- It doesn't look like bryopsis, but my gut is telling me it's some species of this algae type..

Algae: In case it IS some slow growing bryopsis acquired from a frag plug somewhere I've been raising Magnesium -- I'm currently at 1700 mag.

Corals: So corals are holding weak colors right now. After 6-8 weeks of Dinos and me changing all the water params while killing said Dinos, corals became unhappy. What can you do, it's expected -- Some corals initially colored back up a tiny bit, but I noticed instead of my corals turning brown, they've begun to turn purple. The only thing I could find on this was potentially photo inhibition. Coincidentally, this issue began right when I added my reef brite fixture. So I turned off the RB to see what happens. The RB is okay, but it's not what I was looking for so no loss turning it off for a bit.

We'll see how the coral shapes up as time goes on.

T5 Bulb Combo: Finally found a bulb combo I truly enjoy -- in my 6x24 fixture, without RB, I'm really enjoying the color I get from 3 Blue+, 1 Coral+, 1 Purple+, 1 ABS. It's more than blue enough for me, the spectrum is nice and rounded out visually, coral color (while still unhappy) looks the best it has in awhile.. So i'm pretty happy with it.

And Sadly: Finally came to terms with the frags / mini colonies I've lost during the dinos. It was much more than I thought initially, as some of them were a real slow STN process... I ripped out the following;
- Mini colonies lost: Banana / 20k Leagues Lokani, Softball Sized Birdsnest (First SPS), Red Dragon, Green & Purple Aussie Table, 3 tone purple Aussie acro, GARF Bonsai
- Frags lost: 2x Sunset Mille, 2x ASD Rainbow Mille, JF Fox Flame, PC Rainbow, RRA Aussie Gold, WWC Red Shortcake, Strawberry Lemonade, 3x Green Slimer

The lost Mini Colonies were a complete loss -- Thankfully, the frags lost were just frags -- I still have the mothers of those corals, not that they're large mothers -_-

Ouch! I think I can replace a few of the lost frags for you (or at least should be able to in time).

 

[Rakie]

Thanks Daniel. The only one's I'm bummed about are the 20k / Banana lokani.

That JF Flame that died was an accidental nublet, I was going to bring it to the next meeting for you -_-

 

[mcarroll]

Can you post a complete set of current test results?

Have either NO3 and/or PO4 been testing zero or near-zero a lot, or all the time?

The list of stuff I'm doing to beat dinos is convoluted[...]
- Feed nutrients
- Dose bacterias
- Added Fuge
- Overfeeding Just feed the right amount for everything and try to be as controlled with the amount and frequency as you can be.....get an auto-feeder to help! (Eheim's is best IMO)
- CARBON (completely stalls my Sp. of dinos growth, allowing other stuff to out compete it) If anything, this is actually feeding the wrong tendency in your whole phytoplankton community.
- Reduced main lights from 8 hours to 4 hours, increased ReefBrite hours to make up for it. Not helpful to your corals at all, and not necessary vs the dino's.
- Turn off all flow -- Blow off Rocks/Corals 2-4x daily -- scoop out dinos by net
- Quick and constant replacement of polyfilter / socks I don't know if/how this will help. Diatom filtration or UV filtration may help.

The good you did in blue, the bad crossed off, and the comments in orange.

what seemed to be a big game changer for me was re-establishing bacteria, running heavy Carbon

Actually no, it was almost surely the added nutrients. Can you be specific about what you were adding?

Dino's still gone, but tank seems to be going through a post-dinos case of the uglies.. I've got some branching algae that seems to sprout up everywhere. I don't see any runners from it, and it hasn't taken over. It's semi-slow growing and easy to manually remove. It seems like a type of Bryopsis -- It doesn't look like bryopsis, but my gut is telling me it's some species of this algae type..

Algae: In case it IS some slow growing bryopsis acquired from a frag plug somewhere I've been raising Magnesium -- I'm currently at 1700 mag.

Corals: So corals are holding weak colors right now. After 6-8 weeks of Dinos and me changing all the water params while killing said Dinos, corals became unhappy. What can you do,

Unfortunately this situation is somewhat predictable. Fortunately, it's also fixable!

High-Mg is not a cure, even if what you are seeing is bryopsis, so I'd let Mg levels naturally return to normal. Posting a good photo of your algae for diagnosis would be very recommended.

Your corals are weak due to the 6-8 weeks of stresses mounting up on them, yes.....on top of the effects of the dino's and now algae, you've been kinda starving the tank, then you cut back their light source and forced them to start adapting to that as well.

Thankfully you've been feeding some and maybe dosing some liquid N and P nutrients to make up for it, but it sounds a lot like your tank is at least PO4-starved.

No reason this whole situation can't be turned around though!!! Let's see those tests!

 

[Rakie]

0.1) Can you post a complete set of current test results?

1) Have either NO3 and/or PO4 been testing zero or near-zero a lot, or all the time?

2) The good you did in blue, the bad crossed off, and the comments in orange.

3) Actually no, it was almost surely the added nutrients. Can you be specific about what you were adding?

Unfortunately this situation is somewhat predictable. Fortunately, it's also fixable!

4) High-Mg is not a cure, even if what you are seeing is bryopsis, so I'd let Mg levels naturally return to normal. Posting a good photo of your algae for diagnosis would be very recommended.

5) Your corals are weak due to the 6-8 weeks of stresses mounting up on them, yes.....on top of the effects of the dino's and now algae, you've been kinda starving the tank, then you cut back their light source and forced them to start adapting to that as well.

6) Thankfully you've been feeding some and maybe dosing some liquid N and P nutrients to make up for it, but it sounds a lot like your tank is at least PO4-starved.

No reason this whole situation can't be turned around though!!! Let's see those tests!

Thanks for taking the time @mcarroll -- To make it easy i've numbered some of your response.

0.1)
no3 -- 4 (Giesemann -- Dosed 60ml kno3)
po4 -- .05 (Hanna)
alk -- 8.0 (Salifert)
cal -- 440 (Salifert)
mag -- 1600+ (Salifert -- My salt has a high Mag)

1) Yep. I used to not have this problem, the addition of my fuge certainly didn't help -- But the real culprit is Siporax. That stuff is WAY too efficacious... 3L in a 45g Cube means I can dose 4ppm no3 and be at 1 or .5ppm the next morning. My tank is clearing upwards of 3+ ppm no3 per day.

I was actually looking to start a thread soon on slow removal of some siporax.. I believe the amount I have has become detrimental, even though I have a heavily stocked tank.

2) Yep, as I said here I kinda just threw the sink at it. This was not perfect but as I've said in this thread (and elsewhere) I like to run my tank as an experiment.

3) I agree it was the nutrients. The reason I think the bacteria helped was due to my first algae issue in my Bio Cube, a little bacteria helped balance out the tank -- so to speak.

I was dosing kn03 (Potassium Nitrate), Brightwell Aquatics Fastart-M (supposedly balanced no3/po4), and I have (but didn't use) Seachem Phosphorus.

4) I was always lead to believe the high MG was a cure, I recently found out that stems from the Kent Tech M, which actually had high Lithium, which supposedly nukes bryopsis. I had first heard that literally this last friday.

5) Yes, although the light source was actually a lil more than just cutting it back. I added a Reef Brite fixture, and using that burned my corals, so I adjusted the schedule. I don't typically muck with stuff like this, I've run it one way since first getting it, and just put it back to how it was, and corals are happier.

6) Yep, yet again I've been dosing a whole bunch but It only stays in the system for a very short time. This is why I've been considering getting rid of the majority of my Siporax -- When 4 no3 turns to 0.5 no3 overnight, Im just losing too much.

I feed the tank heavily on top of this as well, but it just seems to not add up to much.

 

[mcarroll]

So NO3 has been zero at least recently in the timeframe of the dinos/bryopsis/weird algae syndrome. Correct?

But you haven't had near-zero PO4 at all?

(Just to make sure I'm clear.)

From the current test results you're on the right track! But definitely get the extra bio-media out of there...and any other nutrient-reduction activity too.

Depending on how much of the load you think the siporax is carrying, I'd pull out 1/4 or 1/2 and continue to monitor both NO3 and PO4 closely. If all goes well, pull another 1/4 or the other 1/2 in a week or two, etc until it's gone.

Since you've pretty much confirmed it's Bryopsis, make sure you work this in with the overall treatment plan for that so your tank has a healthy rebound this time!

 

[Rakie]

So NO3 has been zero at least recently in the timeframe of the dinos/bryopsis/weird algae syndrome. Correct?

But you haven't had near-zero PO4 at all?

(Just to make sure I'm clear.)

From the current test results you're on the right track! But definitely get the extra bio-media out of there...and any other nutrient-reduction activity too.

Depending on how much of the load you think the siporax is carrying, I'd pull out 1/4 or 1/2 and continue to monitor both NO3 and PO4 closely. If all goes well, pull another 1/4 or the other 1/2 in a week or two, etc until it's gone.

Since you've pretty much confirmed it's Bryopsis, make sure you work this in with the overall treatment plan for that so your tank has a healthy rebound this time!

Oops, no3/po4 will become zero overnight. It doesn't matter how much kno3/brightwell/phosphorous I dose.

It actually only came to mind a few weeks ago that my Siporax was doing it's job a little too well.. It took months for these problems to arise -- But the last change I made before problem after problem came up was adding 3L siporax (1L pond sized siporax should manage 50g -- I have 3L in 40g total volume with sump, minus rocks/equip).

I actually removed 1/2 of my siporax about 20 minutes ago. The more I think about it the more I realize it's doing more harm than good. The kno3 I'm using is a FW planted fert, it comes from NilocG. With 1 TBS mixed into a Liter of RODI, dosing 1ml/2g raises no3 0.8ppm -- I'm dosing 2ml/g daily, and I can't get it above 4, and the next am I'm at 1 on good days, 0.5 on average days. By 2 days, i'm at 0 !

 

[mcarroll]

Are you doing anything do dose PO4? (What specifically?)

As long as you're dosing NO3 consistently I think your turnaround can happen....at least somewhat irrespective of the test numbers. So don't sweat the numbers too much if you're already putting a decent amount of NO3 into the tank. (Though it's also unlikely that dosing more would hurt.)

But the turnaround can't happen without some PO4 in the water. I would shoot for a number on a kit for this....≥0.03 ppm, or around 0.05 ppm is a reasonable target. (More probably would not hurt in the short run.) This I would sweat a bit more.

Sounds like overall you're on the right track, but you might have to go all the way to get rid of the new bio-media altogether.

 

[Rakie]

Dosing brightwell aquatics Fastart-M right now, which is a balance of no3/po4. When you get to 3 no3 the po4 is around .03, they haven't explained too much about it other than it's a balanced redfield ratio nutrient --

Otherwise, I have (but haven't been using) Seachem Phosphorus. (2.5ml in 60g raises po4 by 0.05)

Yep, .03 is the minimum po4 I like to have. I'm really convinced my problem was the Siporax. For whatever reason, it's making my tank way too clean, and allowing invasive algae to take over as well as starving out my corals. Never had a problem until I added the siporax, and foolishly took way to long to see it was the last change I made before problems came up.

I'm trying to get back to 20-25 no3 and around .o5 - .08 po4. That's where mine was previously.

 

[mcarroll]

So after you dose, are NO3 and PO4 both still returning to zero by the time you're testing, or does the tank water have any of either in reserve yet?

 

[Rakie]

So after you dose, are NO3 and PO4 both still returning to zero by the time you're testing, or does the tank water have any of either in reserve yet?

When I dose I turn off the Carbon and Skimmer for a few hours. Now that I've removed about 2/3 of my Siporax things are already more stable -- Although 1L still does a number on my nutrients.

I'm going to do a 24 hour test this evening -- I dose right at lights out, so I'll see where I'm at for no3/po4. After the first night my nutrient consumption was cut in half over a 12'ish hour period. Last night at 8pm, after dosing and letting it circulate for an hour (filtration all off) my no3 was at 4 -- At 8pm I'll check again.

 

[Rakie]

Last night no3 was at 2 ish, just now it was 1 (Giesemann test)

So it looks like my rapid nutrient uptake is slowed -- Which is good, because my bryopsis meds showed up.. But now that the dang Dino's are back, I'm unsure if running the meds is wise at the moment.

Additional Dosing Today: 30ml of kno3 (about a 1 - 1.2 increase), 3ml Seachem Phosphorus (about a .05 increase).

Plan for tonight: Change out Carbon and run it for a day or two, even if it doesn't help the dino's, it'll help the toxin they produce.

Colors: Coming back big time, despite all the general crap going on.

 

[mcarroll]

As long as you're sure you have bryopsis (and not some other algae) then I think I'd go ahead with the treatment for that too.

If there's any chance you think it's something else then I'd wait it out and see how things with the dino's play out.

 

[Rakie]

UPDATE: lots of things...

- Got a new fish, Sailfin Fairy Wrasse. He had damaged eyes, and has been healing well. At the time, I did NOT have time to setup a QT tank for the new fish. It was my mistake, I was not ready for this pickup.. Introduced flukes.

(My bad pic)

(Not my Pic)

- Used PraziPro and killed a nice wrasse (Angulatus), it was reacting nearly immediately. After rereading prazi directions I found I accidentally gave a double dose.... So definitely my fault. Even the FAQ's warn prazi and wrasse don't always get along... Which is apparently controversial.

- After Angulatus died, I realized I still needed to dose Prazi to rid my other wrasse of the minor fluke outbreak that came from the new fish. Because the other fish showed no damage to the Prazi, and had been treated with Prazi before I figured it was okay to give Prazi a second shot... Which almost killed another wrasse, this time it took about an hour for negative symptoms to start showing... doh. After carbon, skimming, and poly pad this wrasse recovered fully. He's now fat and happy swimmy around the tank again.

- FINALLY beat dinos... I don't see them coming back at all, although as my tank stabilizes I do see little bits of algae.. but I'll take green algae over dinos anyday.

- @mdbannister is going to rescape my tank

 

[GoVols]

Rakie,
I found ya!!!!!

 

[Rakie]

Rakie,
I found ya!!!!!

Yep, I made a mistake and posted the first one in the SPS area, oops!

 

[Peng]

That's how I beat Ostreopsis in my tank. Apparent different species react differently to nutrient method but it worked for Ostreopsis. If I were to do my tank again, I would definitely have waited much longer before I would add corals. I would have probably added a few and let dino take its part and start adding corals after these initial phases go through. Lost several thousand dollars to problems caused by the new tank syndrome.