Coppersafe dosage incorrect on bottle?

[Brew12]

This is on the Dr Fosters website.

Ugh!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

 

[Humblefish]

@Brew12 It's basically a "typo" that's never been fixed. Somebody moved the decimal one spot too far to the left. ;) I've tried explaining it to them (over the phone) ... but you ever get the impression when you're talking to someone that what you're saying just isn't registering with them? :(

 

[Brew12]

@Brew12 It's basically a "typo" that's never been fixed. Somebody moved the decimal one spot too far to the left. ;) I've tried explaining it to them (over the phone) ... but you ever get the impression when you're talking to someone that what you're saying just isn't registering with them? :(

That is a pretty important typo in two easily found locations.o_O

 

[melypr1985]

you ever get the impression when you're talking to someone that what you're saying just isn't registering with them? :(

All the time:rolleyes:

 

[Brew12]

So as I have been digging into this I decided I wanted to do the math to determine what the dosage should be. I was getting ready to put on my chemistry hat so I pulled up the MSDS.

I found this.

Am I wrong in thinking that while this looks like a small fluctuation that it is significant. It is a difference of 1% of the total product but a 50% difference in the active ingredient. :eek:

 

[drawman]

So as I have been digging into this I decided I wanted to do the math to determine what the dosage should be. I was getting ready to put on my chemistry hat so I pulled up the MSDS.

I found this.

Am I wrong in thinking that while this looks like a small fluctuation that it is significant. It is a difference of 1% of the total product but a 50% difference in the active ingredient. :eek:

I thought I remember reading on the bottle that it says 2.2% but I'm at work and may be mistaken. That said if my test kit isn't wrong there is quite a lot of variation.

@Humblefish I was thinking the same thing about the test kit. It may be more of a pain for me to try to get an LFS to test as most of them are a solid hour away. It may be more feasible to just order a second API kit online to double check the results. I may order from a different source just with the hopes of getting a different batch/lot.

Good news is fish are swimming fine as far as a quick check could tell. My kole tang was not all too pleased with the 90% water change last night so he's hiding in PVC when I checked over lunch.

 

[Brew12]

I thought I remember reading on the bottle that it says 2.2% but I'm at work and may be mistaken. That said if my test kit isn't wrong there is quite a lot of variation.

@Humblefish I was thinking the same thing about the test kit. It may be more of a pain for me to try to get an LFS to test as most of them are a solid hour away. It may be more feasible to just order a second API kit online to double check the results. I may order from a different source just with the hopes of getting a different batch/lot.

Good news is fish are swimming fine as far as a quick check could tell. My kole tang was not all too pleased with the 90% water change last night so he's hiding in PVC when I checked over lunch.

I seem to remember seeing 2.2% on my bottle, but I too am at work.

Just glad your fish are doing well.

 

[Brew12]

So to continue my testing I added another 1/4 tsp to my 1 gallon from last night. I went from between 0.25 and 0.5 to right around 1ppm. That seems surprisingly consistent to me.
I am beginning to wonder if it is a problem with my test kit. I've always noticed that my sample has a more yellowish hue than the paper to compare it to.
I am going to pick up another API test kit this weekend when I have a chance. I will then compare both the color cards to see if they match and mix up a new 1g sample to play with.

One thing that really has me confused is that I have been very successful when I have used in in my QT system. I'd think if I had significantly overdosed I would have lost fish. I know some of my fish came with velvet but they have all been in my DT for months with no symptoms. I don't think I could have been too far off in my actual dosage. :confused:

 

[drawman]

So to continue my testing I added another 1/4 tsp to my 1 gallon from last night. I went from between 0.25 and 0.5 to right around 1ppm. That seems surprisingly consistent to me.
I am beginning to wonder if it is a problem with my test kit. I've always noticed that my sample has a more yellowish hue than the paper to compare it to.
I am going to pick up another API test kit this weekend when I have a chance. I will then compare both the color cards to see if they match and mix up a new 1g sample to play with.

One thing that really has me confused is that I have been very successful when I have used in in my QT system. I'd think if I had significantly overdosed I would have lost fish. I know some of my fish came with velvet but they have all been in my DT for months with no symptoms. I don't think I could have been too far off in my actual dosage. :confused:

Yeah hopefully the therapeutic dosage has some real world leeway to account for minor testing error/inconsistency.

I bought another API test kit on amazon so it should arrive Thursday. I can use it to compare as well. Too bad you're all the way in Alabama otherwise we could compare samples :)

 

[Maritimer]

I've been using Kordon's version of chelated copper "Safe Copper-Aid", which has exactly the same "Teaspoon (5ml) per 4 gallons" instructions on the package. On their website, however, it says "4oz. bottle treats 50 gallons". Which is ... kind of not the same thing. (And closer to the truth - I've had to use nearly a whole bottle to bring my 40-breeder QT up to therapeutic levels.)

~Bruce

 

[Brew12]

Yeah hopefully the therapeutic dosage has some real world leeway to account for minor testing error/inconsistency.

I bought another API test kit on amazon so it should arrive Thursday. I can use it to compare as well. Too bad you're all the way in Alabama otherwise we could compare samples :)

Too cold up there by you! Even if I lived nearby the samples would freeze before we could compare! :p

Funny enough since my wife and I met in Alabama, but we both have family up by you. It's a small world.

 

[Brew12]

I've been using Kordon's version of chelated copper "Safe Copper-Aid", which has exactly the same "Teaspoon (5ml) per 4 gallons" instructions on the package. On their website, however, it says "4oz. bottle treats 50 gallons". Which is ... kind of not the same thing. (And closer to the truth - I've had to use nearly a whole bottle to bring my 40-breeder QT up to therapeutic levels.)

~Bruce

So 4 ounces would be 120ml. If 5ml treats 4 gallons then 120ml should treat that should treat 96 gallons not 50. And if you need almost the whole bottle that would get you very close to the dosing I am seeing I need using Coppersafe. Are you using an API test kit?

btw... I really appreciate you joining the conversation, more information is always a good thing!

 

[Humblefish]

@Brew12 We need to setup a conference call with Fritz to discuss Coppersafe dosage & recommended therapeutic levels, the % of formaldehyde found in Quick Cure, etc.

Maybe I'm not explaining myself right to these people. :p

 

[Maritimer]

So 4 ounces would be 120ml. If 5ml treats 4 gallons then 120ml should treat that should treat 96 gallons not 50. And if you need almost the whole bottle that would get you very close to the dosing I am seeing I need using Coppersafe. Are you using an API test kit?

btw... I really appreciate you joining the conversation, more information is always a good thing!

Yes, Brew12 - I use an API test kit with the Kordon copper product. I suspect there's very little (zero?) difference between the products, beyond the color of the label on the bottle.

~Bruce

 

[Brew12]

@Brew12 We need to setup a conference call with Fritz to discuss Coppersafe dosage & recommended therapeutic levels, the % of formaldehyde found in Quick Cure, etc.

Maybe I'm not explaining myself right to these people. :p

Are you going to represent Fritz on the phone call so we I have someone with useful information to talk to? ;)

I called them a month or 2 ago when others had the same issue with dosing. The person I talked to said that the website numbers were correct. And that fresh product should be added every month to maintain the dosing level. :confused:

They need to automate their phone system so we get some consistent answers. They may be wrong but at least the computer should say the same thing every time! :p

 

[Brew12]

Yes, Brew12 - I use an API test kit with the Kordon copper product. I suspect there's very little (zero?) difference between the products, beyond the color of the label on the bottle.

~Bruce

Thanks. This is very curious.
Looking up information on the Kordon product and they show a 4oz bottle treating 100g which is about what I expected. But you need almost all of it for 40g.
Any chance you can look and see if it is also 2.2% concentration?

 

[Humblefish]

Are you going to represent Fritz on the phone call so we I have someone with useful information to talk to? ;)

I called them a month or 2 ago when others had the same issue with dosing. The person I talked to said that the website numbers were correct. And that fresh product should be added every month to maintain the dosing level. :confused:

They need to automate their phone system so we get some consistent answers. They may be wrong but at least the computer should say the same thing every time! :p

I'm gonna try a different approach this time around. A LFS I advise is pretty tight with one of their sales reps. So, I'm gonna try to talk to him and see what I can get done.

 

[Jeffdstafford]

Just to add more support on this; I'm currently treating a ~200 gallon QT with coppersafe, and initially followed bottle instructions of 1 cup=190 gallons..I've had to add at least 3 cups to get up to therapeutic range, maybe even a little more than that.

 

[Brew12]

Just to add more support on this; I'm currently treating a ~200 gallon QT with coppersafe, and initially followed bottle instructions of 1 cup=190 gallons..I've had to add at least 3 cups to get up to therapeutic range, maybe even a little more than that.

Thanks Jeff. Really don't know what to make of this.

 

[melypr1985]

I guess I'll throw mine in the ring. At the store, when I do a water change of ~250 gallons on the fish system I add about 2 1/2 cups of copper safe to it to keep it at therapeutic levels.