Disregard for reefing guidelines

[PeterC99]

Jeanna the future vet. My daughter.

Wish your beautiful daughter and future veterinarian much joy and success! There will be many fortunate animals to receive her care!

 

[ReefRusty]

Unfortunately with all the information given to new reefers whether it be on here Reef2reef or from a local fish store to people who think they know better as it once worked for them and no one else.. there is so much misleading and misunderstanding information out there even for the most simple things like feeding a specific type of fish..

Its all about educating new people and helping them with questions regardless if a 4 year old could answer it for not. Sharing my information on what I have learnt may or may not help someone new in this hobby but from what I’ve learnt from here and also the fish store has helped.

I have been given bad advise from a LFS and from on here. There is just learning from all these

 

[Just John]

Now this actually did make me LOL.

 

[Just John]

Ok, this definitely looks like some raw liver.

 

[Spieg]

It's not just reefing. Continuing on the motorcycle theme. I have a good friend that works at a motorcycle store and he tells me about people all the time who come in and spend 20k on a fancy new crotch-rocket and have never been on a bike. It's like they expect someone at the store to teach them how to mount up for the first time and get home without killing themselves.

 

[outhouse]

"Is it okay to use first gear up until 65mph?

Demanded on mine lol maybe 70

There are a million ways to skin this cat, and there are many new trends blind to newcomers in the last 5 years, and a lot of things are changing with leds becoming so popular. Now with Vibrant things are even easier.

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

Here are my thoughts......after reading the responses i believe most of ya'll are missing the point.

This isnt about getting down on new reefers, or high horses, or the like. Its about new reefers not putting in the time and effort to understand what keeping a reef tank is all about. Im more than willing to help but i wont do the work you should have done in the first place.

Yes, we were all new and still are really and all have questions, thats okay, but do YOUR RESEARCH. Use the search, use google, read, problem solve, take notes, formulate thoughts, use reason and logic. Formulate a plan and after all that, if you still have a question, ask away. Our culture is a microwave society and im just as guilty at times :p

Also, it could be helpful if someone states that they have been putting in the time doing research but are still having trouble understanding. Sometimes things aren't clear no matter how much research we've done but im willing to bet more would be willing to take the time to help knowing the individual has already taken some time on their own.

I guess im not one to coddle people or be "nice" for the sake of being "nice". I dont believe its helpful. Keeping it real and telling the truth, though it may not feel good at times is actually helpful.

 

[ZoWhat]

This isnt about getting down on new reefers, or high horses, or the like. Its about new reefers not putting in the time and effort to understand what keeping a reef tank is all about.
Im more than willing to help but i wont do the work you should have done in the first place.

 

[agame2021]

Anyone else seeing a dramatic rise of ppl that are new to the hobby and disregarding reefing guidelines?

Surely one would never go buy a rare type of dog without reading in depth on how to care for it, train it.... maybe ppl do just buy and figure it out later. What do i know?

I feel like a person in a Motorcycle Forum called Bike2Bike...with questions like,

"Is it okay to use first gear up until 65mph? And why does black smoke come out of my exhaust when I do this?"

"Can I ride backwards on my Harley and steer with my arms behind me? I wanna see where I've been"

I'm not understanding the total lack of discipline (common sense if you will) when entering a hobby, when you obviously know you have to do a lot of research for it.... yet a lot of ppl just seem to be winging-it

But do you really want to allow a Dr to practice their profession without having their residency? Don’t get me wrong I studied till I was blue in the face but it’s not till you start your practice that it fully starts to make sense!
It’s like giving someone a book on how to become a pilot then hand them keys to a plan and say fly while I take a nap… honestly a simulator would be the best place to start but is there such a thing for this hobby?

if we all had mentors we would be limited to the ideas of 1 persons experience. Luckily for us we have a community of professionals who are willing to share experience even if it is contrary to the popular belief.
If we could all have insta tanks everyone would do it. If it was easy everyone would stick with it forever. But because it’s not people have to make mistakes and learn because you cannot always look to learn from other peoples mistakes. Especially when that new person doesn’t have a clue where to look.

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

But do you really want to allow a Dr to practice their profession without having their residency? Don’t get me wrong I studied till I was blue in the face but it’s not till you start your practice that it fully starts to make sense!
It’s like giving someone a book on how to become a pilot then hand them keys to a plan and say fly while I take a nap… honestly a simulator would be the best place to start but is there such a thing for this hobby?

if we all had mentors we would be limited to the ideas of 1 persons experience. Luckily for us we have a community of professionals who are willing to share experience even if it is contrary to the popular belief.
If we could all have insta tanks everyone would do it. If it was easy everyone would stick with it forever. But because it’s not people have to make mistakes and learn because you cannot always look to learn from other peoples mistakes. Especially when that new person doesn’t have a clue where to look.

The thing is a doctor or a pilot goes to school for many years, has training, and people teaching them. No one gives them a book or two and says now youre good to cut into people or fly a plane. You cant be a doctor or pilot without putting in the work first. Put in the time and effort, have an understanding of the thing, then you get the chance to cut into people or fly a plane.

Great idea!!!.....reefing school. Go to school for 4 years then you can own a tank. I like it! haha

Yes, often times, things make more sense as you get involved but that isnt the point here. The point is putting in the upfront work to understand what it takes to keep a reef eco system in a glass box. You said it yourself, you studied until you were blue in the face. This should be no different.

Community of professionals is probably a stretch, haha, but there are plenty with a good understanding.

It seems lately many think you can have "insta" tanks. You've admitted it isnt easy keeping a reef eco system, all the more validation to put in the upfront work. Also, it being difficult should not be an excuse for mistakes, people dont "have to" make mistakes. Will mistakes happen? Yes, i make plenty but i strive to minimize them with good research and asking questions if im still unclear.

Everyone has a clue where to look.....you can thank google for that :)

 

[Forty-Two]

I’ve read some of the posts about ‘What rules? There are no rules’

*ahem* I kid you not a I saw this on a Facebook saltwater tank keeping group. A person posts pictures of his fish - they aren’t breathing so well and he can’t figure out why.

Seems reasonable - until you look at the pic next to it of a tank 30-40% of the water missing (evaporation) - and has lots of algae.

He doesn’t understand why the fish look like they can’t breath or what might be wrong. It was pointed out to him that you can’t allow the water to evaporate like that and not replace it.

I’ve seen some pretty bad posts on FB. Most of these folks have not done the research. The simply bought a tank, plunked it down and watch the animals die - while posting on FB asking for help to fix the problem that they created


….

 

[elysics]

The problem starts with low quality pet stores imo. People whos employees dont know whats involved and just sell people a tank, hang on filter, and water and some fish the same day. These people think its no different than a gerbal or something and then they tell the customers its easy if you buy all this stuff.

Then said customer loses fish, has algae problems, etc and starts to realize hey this isnt so easy, let me do some research and then they come here. Honestly i dont have a problem with it, if i see someone needs help ill offer my knowledge if it saves some fish and coral. Typically just going off on these people only makes them leave and not help the fish.

I don't think a gerbil appreciates it either to be given to some kid with a small cage and plastic decoration.

It's a problem in general with people asking pet store employees, or sales people in general for that matter going back to the motorcycle example and other domains, for any kind of advice and trusting a word they say.

Not really their fault either if they don't know any better, not everyone's first experience is getting scammed by used car salespeople. Would be nice if that learning experience want on the back of animals though

 

[Cool tangs]

Mate jump in and learn!

Anyone who has studied for years cant tell me they know what there doing. Practical experience is worth more in my opinion.

Lets not get political here, as most others have said its our responsability to make newcomers feel welcome and help them as best as we can.

We are humans, no ones perfect.

F guidelines, rules are ment to be broken. Look at apl these great tanks that dont follow tradition!

As always happy reefing and i welcome any new reefer, research or none! Some times jumping in is the best way to progress!!

 

[_sludgefactory]

This forum has really gone down hill since l joined. Used to be an inviting place where you could feel ok to ask questions. Anymore the only thing that comes up in my feed is gate keeping, elitist sounding posts like this. Literally just saw a post the other day about how if you have artificial rock you didn't have a reef. It's a real shame what this place has become.

 

[howaboutme]

Since you started this thread could you Please tell me where I can find the “official“ Reefing guidelines?

Most of this wouldn't be on R2R. It's just too young. You have to go find it on other sites/forums. R2R was born at a time where instant solutions took off, bottle this or bottle that. As a result most of the solutions (mostly by people recently in the hobby) result in just buying something. Very little actually tackle root causes, reasoning behind them, etc. Also too much commercialization on R2R with said products distorting solutions to issues.

90 pages but priceless information:
https://www.thereeftank.com/threads/reefkeeping-made-easy-what-was-not-explained.160389/

 

[PeterC99]

Most of this wouldn't be on R2R. It's just too young. You have to go find it on other sites/forums. R2R was born at a time where instant solutions took off, bottle this or bottle that. As a result most of the solutions (mostly by people recently in the hobby) result in just buying something. Very little actually tackle root causes, reasoning behind them, etc. Also too much commercialization on R2R with said products distorting solutions to issues.

90 pages but priceless information:
https://www.thereeftank.com/threads/reefkeeping-made-easy-what-was-not-explained.160389/

Thank you for posting this but begs the obvious question:

Why is this information on another site? Why isn’t this on R2R?

This thread complains about people not following the reefing guidelines but these guidelines are published somewhere else?

 

[Big Smelly fish]

This forum has really gone down hill since l joined. Used to be an inviting place where you could feel ok to ask questions. Anymore the only thing that comes up in my feed is gate keeping, elitist sounding posts like this. Literally just saw a post the other day about how if you have artificial rock you didn't have a reef. It's a real shame what this place has become.

I agree, I haven’t had many post on here , not even sure when I joined. But threads like these do nothing to advance the hobby. They drive people away.

 

[lynn.reef.nerd]

Thank you for posting this but begs the obvious question:

Why is this information on another site? Why isn’t this on R2R?

This thread complains about people not following the reefing guidelines but these guidelines are published somewhere else?

R2R is an education forum??????
I mainly use R2R to buy corals and see sales. I give up trying to get meaningful and useful information here.
If I truly want answers, I seek out people in my local reef club.

 

[WVNed]

This forum has really gone down hill since l joined. Used to be an inviting place where you could feel ok to ask questions. Anymore the only thing that comes up in my feed is gate keeping, elitist sounding posts like this. Literally just saw a post the other day about how if you have artificial rock you didn't have a reef. It's a real shame what this place has become.

This place us the sum total of the people here. It is what it is.
The forum is just software.

 

[PeterC99]

This thread has conflicting messages…

First you want people to follow “unofficial” reefing guidelines.

Second you are saying R2R doesn’t give meaningful and useful information.