MH problems

[WVNed]

I am having an issue I don't understand. In short the things in my 240 under the Hamilton Cebu sun lights are not doing well.
They were doing excellent for a while and then just went down hill. Growth stopped, browning and lack of polyp extension on all my gorgs.

So I re-lamped replacing the MH and T-5 bulbs with new ones. That was 2 months ago. It didn't help. I moved the lights gradually down to 6 inches over the tank. That helped a little.

I took one of the sad looking gorgonians and moved it into my 75 gallon tank under the Reefbreeders Photon and in an hour
it was much better. I moved another and the same thing happened. The 2 tanks are on the same sump with the same water parameters.

My large purple ribbon that I thought was going to die already has it's polyps out right now and is purple again.

The other thing I noticed is in a short period of time I had Hamilton 10k, 14k and 20k bulbs in the fixture. When I installed the new Hamilton 14K bulbs one was defective so I put a 20K until it was replaced. To my eyes they all have the same appearance and it is a very bright white. This was not the case before.

So I installed 4 new Ushio 20k bulbs and put the 4 new Hamilton 14ks in the cabinet for later. They replaced the defective bulb.

Could it be something with the 4 ballasts? I have checked and all 4 are set to 250 watts.

I am stumped.

 

[dank reefer]

Have your nutrients changed since you noticed the decline in corals?

 

[WVNed]

I just got a ICP test back. It's not the water. The stuff in the 75 is fine as well.

Perhaps I need to go back to a longer on time for the MH. I am running them 8 hours now 11-7.

 

[WVNed]

The short of it
Here are the tanks right now.

The 2 tanks have the same water parameters (on same sump and good ICP test last week)) and the same flow.
The big one with the Halides is doing poorly now though it was fine 6 months ago. It has new lamps.
8 hour photoperiod now at 8 inches over the water. I have tried down to 6 inches but that makes it hard to get into the tank and didn't help so I raised it a little. I have tried as high as 15 inches.
Something moved from the big tank to the smaller one improves in 1 hour.

If it isn't the water or the flow it has to be the lights. Or am I missing something.


What else can I try?

 

[A. grandis]

You should stop playing with the light.
You probably didn't adapt the system correctly.
Bring the halides to 3 hours a day for now and increase it very slowly one hour every 2 weeks, until 5 hours a day and leave it alone.
250W could be too strong for your tank for now.
I leave my 250Ws only for 5 hours max over my 75gal.
The T5s are on for 9 hours here.
Leave the 20Ks for now. To change for the 14Ks you will need to adapt the system again, very slowly.
I would leave the 20ks for a year.

 

[WVNed]

You should stop playing with the light.
You probably didn't adapt the system correctly.
Bring the halides to 3 hours a day for now and increase it very slowly one hour every 2 weeks, until 5 hours a day and leave it alone.
250W could be too strong for your tank for now.
I leave my 250Ws only for 5 hours max over my 75gal.
The T5s are on for 9 hours here.
Leave the 20Ks for now. To change for the 14Ks you will need to adapt the system again, very slowly.
I would leave the 20ks for a year.

I'm sorry, this is a 240 gallon tank that has been up a couple of years and you have no idea what you are talking about. Adapt very slowly, why? If I am concerned I raise them a few inches and then lower them over several days. I might do that going from 20k to 10k which are much brighter.

I run my Halides 8-12 hours a day. 10 right now. My lights are on from7am to 9 pm.

The 20k bulbs came with the fixture. I ran them for 2 months. Then I ordered 10K and ran them for 2 months. The I ordered 14K and ran them for a year and then replaced them with new 14K. But one was defective so I took the fixture down and tried a 10K bulb and 20K bulb to compare with the 14ks and left the 20 k in until the replacement bulb got here.
I ordered a set of Ushio 20K bulbs also and since they got here first I put it all back with them in it.

 

[minus9]

I think he was saying that you've made a lot of changes in a very short period of time with the lighting. Par intensity, spectrum, photo inhibition possibly? etc.... These all add up to corals essentially shutting down. Some animals can adapt quickly, others not so much. If the corals are unable to uptake the building blocks and alk, that can create short spikes and then those rapid changes can fire off other rapid changes, which could cause browning, etc. Your parameters then can move back to "normal" ranges, but those rapid changes already did the damage and created the issues you're experiencing. Corals (depending on species) will have a delayed reaction to these rapid micro changes sometimes. Just something to think about, as we're all trying to help.

 

[A. grandis]

I'm sorry, this is a 240 gallon tank that has been up a couple of years and you have no idea what you are talking about. Adapt very slowly, why? If I am concerned I raise them a few inches and then lower them over several days. I might do that going from 20k to 10k which are much brighter.

I run my Halides 8-12 hours a day. 10 right now. My lights are on from7am to 9 pm.

The 20k bulbs came with the fixture. I ran them for 2 months. Then I ordered 10K and ran them for 2 months. The I ordered 14K and ran them for a year and then replaced them with new 14K. But one was defective so I took the fixture down and tried a 10K bulb and 20K bulb to compare with the 14ks and left the 20 k in until the replacement bulb got here.
I ordered a set of Ushio 20K bulbs also and since they got here first I put it all back with them in it.

Now I have a better idea, after you explained.
I thought you were switching bulbs here and there.
I think you should be the one telling us what's going on then since you should now what's going on, right?!
LOL!
I think your dog (avatar) would treat me better than you would. LOL!

 

[WVNed]

I think he was saying that you've made a lot of changes in a very short period of time with the lighting. Par intensity, spectrum, photo inhibition possibly? etc.... These all add up to corals essentially shutting down. Some animals can adapt quickly, others not so much. If the corals are unable to uptake the building blocks and alk, that can create short spikes and then those rapid changes can fire off other rapid changes, which could cause browning, etc. Your parameters then can move back to "normal" ranges, but those rapid changes already did the damage and created the issues you're experiencing. Corals (depending on species) will have a delayed reaction to these rapid micro changes sometimes. Just something to think about, as we're all trying to help.

Except I didnt, I replaced 14K bulbs with 14 K bulbs except one was bad in the order so I put in one 20K and
3 14k. I was comparing the outputs of the 20, 10 and 14k lights but the light was down off the mounts.
The I changed to 4 20 K a week later. I assure you no acclimatization is needed going from 14K to 20K.

Now I have a better idea, after you explained.
I thought you were switching bulbs here and there.
I think you should be the one telling us what's going on then since you should now what's going on, right?!
LOL!

I am trying to. I didn't want a bunch of irrelevant stuff to get dragged into this. You only run your lights 5 hours a day?

As stated above though the problems started before all that when I thought I had simply failed to get new bulbs soon enough. I thought new bulbs would fix things and they didn't.

And perhaps it's me, when I got the lights and built the 240 I tried 20k, 10k and 14k bulbs to pick the ones I liked. I could tell a difference. 10K was too bright, 20K too dim and 14K was what I wanted and left in long term. Now I cant tell a difference even with one odd light in the fixture over the tank.
I ordered the Ushio 20ks because I wanted to try something other than Hamilton bulbs. So I put them in. That's what is in now. The lighting in the pic above

 

[minus9]

Do you have a par meter to verify the lights are producing enough par? Might be an issue with the ballast? It's hard to say.

 

[WVNed]

Do you have a par meter to verify the lights are producing enough par? Might be an issue with the ballast? It's hard to say.

It thought of that. But I have 4 ballasts. What are the odds all 4 went bad the same way at the same time?


I used to run all the lights 12 hours a day. Then I cut them back gradually to 8. I increased the MH Back to 10 hours from 8 today. The internet says the 20K bulbs make less par. I have 4 new 14K bulbs in the cabinet too. Maybe I will put them back in. I think I made a rookie mistake too. MH bulbs have to burn in and I was comparing bulbs that had run 2 months to new bulbs so the comparison wasn't accurate.

 

[minus9]

It thought of that. But I have 4 ballasts. What are the odds all 4 went bad the same way at the same time?


I used to run all the lights 12 hours a day. Then I cut them back gradually to 8. I increased the MH Back to 10 hours from 8 today. The internet says the 20K bulbs make less par. I have 4 new 14K bulbs in the cabinet too. Maybe I will put them back in. I think I made a rookie mistake too. MH bulbs have to burn in and I was comparing bulbs that had run 2 months to new bulbs so the comparison wasn't accurate.

Yeah, it takes a week or so before they burn properly.