Multiple fish lost - Velvet?

CDubz

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Hey all,

I recently upgraded to a 170 from a 62 three months ago. Had the 62 for a year and a half. Transfer went smoothly. Went from sand to bare bottom. No fish or coral loss. Used about 60 LBS live rock from the prior tank and 100 LBS new dry rock. I have some random LPS and zoas including a large colony of duncan and hammer that did well.

Stock included:
1x Blue Hippo (3-4" and a big reason for the upgrade)
1x 6 Line Wrasse
2x Axle Green/Blue Chromis
3x Lyretail Anthia
1x Clownfish
Various snails and a few blue hermits.

Didn't get any ammonia spikes; all was well.

Mid July, I added a foxface and scopas from a known box store retailer. They acclimated well and I didn't see any weird activity or signs of disease.

Late July, I added some cheap acros and LPS from a LFS for testers. They have done well.

Mid August, I ordered a powder blue tang, green mandarin, and lawnmower blenny from a known online retailer. I ordered Friday and the order was expected Monday.

Over that weekend I noticed my Blue Hippo was not out and found it dead under a rock. Didn't show any weird activity and didn't have any signs of disease on the outside or on gills. It was sad but it happens (I very rarely lose fish).

Order arrived Monday and I acclimated the PBT, mandarin, and lawnmower blenny and they did well. I noticed the scopas was acting strange the day after though. Hiding and occasionally flashing. I chalked it up to all the new activity.

Then things got rough. The scopas never came out and ate only what came to his cave (I have lots of rock and lots of hiding spots). He was flashing occasionally. If he came out into the light he would "wig" out and swim rapidly throughout the tank hitting glass and rocks. He had no signs of disease on the outside. He died a day later. I found one of my anthias dead a day after that. The powder blue looked fine and was eating nori then did the same thing (hiding all day and would "wig" out when he came out). Long story short the powder blue died and the green mandarin as well. None of them showed any external signs except the powder blue had a brownish tinge to one of his sides. I don't know if it was disease or because he floated into a gyre and maybe algae transferred. Currently the other two anthias are hiding in rocks and not coming out but the foxface, 2x chromis, 6 line, clownfish, and lawnmower blenny are out acting normal and eating.

All params are normal (to me). No ammonia or nitrites. Barely detectable nitrates and phosphates. PH 7.8 to 8.1 (I used to use a co2 scrubber which had the ph 8.0-8.3 but I wanted a simpler system and I have not needed to dose kalk yet like I did). SG 1.027 (bringing it down my icecap pen was not calibrated right). I have a fuge, clean filter socks 2x a week, do a 10% WC once a week.

I do not QT and have never. I maybe lost 3-4 fish over a decade of reef keeping and 2 of those were fish aggression. My thoughts on QT are all the way or none (might change now). I thought that it was pointless to QT fish when I'm not QT'ing inverts and corals. I feed heavy frozen and nori.

All that said I'm kind of at a loss of what to do. I can either tear down the tank to get the surviving fish (which I assume are immune to this disease) to QT and fallow the DT or let it ride for a few months and hope it disappears before I add more fish. I appreciate any help.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Hey all,

I recently upgraded to a 170 from a 62 three months ago. Had the 62 for a year and a half. Transfer went smoothly. Went from sand to bare bottom. No fish or coral loss. Used about 60 LBS live rock from the prior tank and 100 LBS new dry rock. I have some random LPS and zoas including a large colony of duncan and hammer that did well.

Stock included:
1x Blue Hippo (3-4" and a big reason for the upgrade)
1x 6 Line Wrasse
2x Axle Green/Blue Chromis
3x Lyretail Anthia
1x Clownfish
Various snails and a few blue hermits.

Didn't get any ammonia spikes; all was well.

Mid July, I added a foxface and scopas from a known box store retailer. They acclimated well and I didn't see any weird activity or signs of disease.

Late July, I added some cheap acros and LPS from a LFS for testers. They have done well.

Mid August, I ordered a powder blue tang, green mandarin, and lawnmower blenny from a known online retailer. I ordered Friday and the order was expected Monday.

Over that weekend I noticed my Blue Hippo was not out and found it dead under a rock. Didn't show any weird activity and didn't have any signs of disease on the outside or on gills. It was sad but it happens (I very rarely lose fish).

Order arrived Monday and I acclimated the PBT, mandarin, and lawnmower blenny and they did well. I noticed the scopas was acting strange the day after though. Hiding and occasionally flashing. I chalked it up to all the new activity.

Then things got rough. The scopas never came out and ate only what came to his cave (I have lots of rock and lots of hiding spots). He was flashing occasionally. If he came out into the light he would "wig" out and swim rapidly throughout the tank hitting glass and rocks. He had no signs of disease on the outside. He died a day later. I found one of my anthias dead a day after that. The powder blue looked fine and was eating nori then did the same thing (hiding all day and would "wig" out when he came out). Long story short the powder blue died and the green mandarin as well. None of them showed any external signs except the powder blue had a brownish tinge to one of his sides. I don't know if it was disease or because he floated into a gyre and maybe algae transferred. Currently the other two anthias are hiding in rocks and not coming out but the foxface, 2x chromis, 6 line, clownfish, and lawnmower blenny are out acting normal and eating.

All params are normal (to me). No ammonia or nitrites. Barely detectable nitrates and phosphates. PH 7.8 to 8.1 (I used to use a co2 scrubber which had the ph 8.0-8.3 but I wanted a simpler system and I have not needed to dose kalk yet like I did). SG 1.027 (bringing it down my icecap pen was not calibrated right). I have a fuge, clean filter socks 2x a week, do a 10% WC once a week.

I do not QT and have never. I maybe lost 3-4 fish over a decade of reef keeping and 2 of those were fish aggression. My thoughts on QT are all the way or none (might change now). I thought that it was pointless to QT fish when I'm not QT'ing inverts and corals. I feed heavy frozen and nori.

All that said I'm kind of at a loss of what to do. I can either tear down the tank to get the surviving fish (which I assume are immune to this disease) to QT and fallow the DT or let it ride for a few months and hope it disappears before I add more fish. I appreciate any help.

Can you post a video so that I can get a respiration rate on the remaining fish?

Sounds like it is probably gill flukes. Those take time to develop, don’t hit all species equally and don’t give any external symptoms except elevated respiration rates, and people can miss that.

Gill flukes can be managed using Prazipro, even in a reef.

Jay
 
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CDubz

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Can you post a video so that I can get a respiration rate on the remaining fish?

Sounds like it is probably gill flukes. Those take time to develop, don’t hit all species equally and don’t give any external symptoms except elevated respiration rates, and people can miss that.

Gill flukes can be managed using Prazipro, even in a reef.

Jay
 

Jay Hemdal

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Thanks, the foxface seems to be breathing a bit fast, but not too bad. Its right eye seems a bit cloudy, does it look that way to you? The other fish in the video look pretty good.

I'm not 100% on a diagnosis here, but Prazipro is pretty safe to use in a display tank, you might consider trying that. The dose is according to label directions, but space two treatments out 8 days apart (not 2) and supply the tank with good aeration during the process.

Jay
 
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CDubz

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Thanks, the foxface seems to be breathing a bit fast, but not too bad. Its right eye seems a bit cloudy, does it look that way to you? The other fish in the video look pretty good.

I'm not 100% on a diagnosis here, but Prazipro is pretty safe to use in a display tank, you might consider trying that. The dose is according to label directions, but space two treatments out 8 days apart (not 2) and supply the tank with good aeration during the process.

Jay
Thanks jay. Will do.

As far as quarantining is concerned I’m kind of a baptize by fire guy and clearly this was a fire. Any suggestions? Like should I be QTing every fish, coral, and invert that comes in? My wife would not approve of that many tanks!
 

Jay Hemdal

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Thanks jay. Will do.

As far as quarantining is concerned I’m kind of a baptize by fire guy and clearly this was a fire. Any suggestions? Like should I be QTing every fish, coral, and invert that comes in? My wife would not approve of that many tanks!

You should be quarantining all new fish, or buy fish that are pre quarantined, or captive raised (direct from the breeder though). This won't eliminate all diseases, but it will greatly reduce their incidence.

Corals an invertebrates may just need to be held for 30 days or so in a fishless system, unless they came out of a tank that had diseased fish in it. Many people just rinse their invertebrates in clean seawater and move them into their displays....

Jay
 
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CDubz

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You should be quarantining all new fish, or buy fish that are pre quarantined, or captive raised (direct from the breeder though). This won't eliminate all diseases, but it will greatly reduce their incidence.

Corals an invertebrates may just need to be held for 30 days or so in a fishless system, unless they came out of a tank that had diseased fish in it. Many people just rinse their invertebrates in clean seawater and move them into their displays....

Jay
Thanks jay. Waiting on the prazi I’ll follow up. The survivors look fine for now.
 
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CDubz

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Jay,

Just did a water change and noticed the back acrylic on my Innovative Marine 170 EXT is separating/delaminating from the back glass wall. IM puts a full piece of acrylic on the back wall to include the weir on the overflow. It has obviously swelled with water and caused it to separate.

Do you think there could be adverse effects from the glue used or something that was in between the acrylic and glass? It's also a detritus trap now... Basically I'm not sure if it's causal or coincidental. You can see the bowing on the back wall and a full inch gap in the overflow box.
image0.jpeg

image2.jpeg
 

Jay Hemdal

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Jay,

Just did a water change and noticed the back acrylic on my Innovative Marine 170 EXT is separating/delaminating from the back glass wall. IM puts a full piece of acrylic on the back wall to include the weir on the overflow. It has obviously swelled with water and caused it to separate.

Do you think there could be adverse effects from the glue used or something that was in between the acrylic and glass? It's also a detritus trap now... Basically I'm not sure if it's causal or coincidental. You can see the bowing on the back wall and a full inch gap in the overflow box.
image0.jpeg

image2.jpeg

Sorry - I don't know anything about those tanks, or how they are constructed. Do you think it is a structural issue?

I doubt that it released any toxins from the bonding agent(s), those would have fully cured by now. It could serve as an anoxic detritus trap, but how would have the anoxic water gotten released into the tank all at once to cause a problem?

Generally, in almost every case, if there is a water quality issue, the invertebrates show it first and worst.....


Jay
 

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