Live rock aquascaping questions

[Frigideus]

As the time draws very close, I’m getting ready to prepare for my live goods this week, I need to know how long or how resilient my live rock is.

How long can I fiddle with it for scaping? Do I need to scape it in water or can I sit and glue them together outside? If so, how long do I have? If I need to scape live rock in the water, what kind of adhesive should I use???


Any help is appreciated!

 

[littlefoxx]

I just stack them in the tank. Tried the cement, glue, putty you name it. Nothing holds. So Ive always built the scape inside the tank and just moved rocks around and fit them until they are snug. Here are some pictures of my rocks, excuse my unscraped glass in some pictures

 

[skey44]

For reference “live rock” used to be shipped out of water in boxes for a week or more and this was still considered “fresh.” Now with the advent of modern Gulf Live Rock some sellers are shipping wet or very moist. With this you are going to have the opportunity for less die off than ever before. Meaning 1 more critters and 2 less cycle time. Basically the longer it’s out of the water the more sensitive species that will die. The more death the more cycle.
I think you just have to personally balance how committed are you to a certain scape idea vs how much life do you want to preserve on the rock. There’s really no wrong answer here. A few hours out of water to get your perfect scape probably won’t be the end of the world, but you’re likely to lose the more sensitive creatures and life forms that come in.
I wouldn’t overthink it. If you want to glue rocks and all that for a cool design, just do it realizing there is a time limit and some species will die immediately out of water. Other more hardy species and most of the bacteria can live through shipping across the ocean semi dry for weeks. This was the old fashioned pacific live rock that’s not readily available anymore.
There are many ways to do this hobby successfully.
I for one started with dead old pacific ocean live rock I had in the yard for years. It was quite the process to get it back to “live” rock but I’m over a year in and am very satisfied with my new/old live rock.

 

[Sam7]

I just stack them in the tank. Tried the cement, glue, putty you name it. Nothing holds. So Ive always built the scape inside the tank and just moved rocks around and fit them until they are snug. Here are some pictures of my rocks, excuse my unscraped glass in some pictures

Thats huge eel what kind is it?

 

[skey44]

I played around with tidal gardens method of gluing rock on some of my scape and I was happy with how it turned out!
I used a medium gel super glue and fine aragonite sand out of the water. Made a very firm bond for me.

Here are some images of my aquascape add on. Think it turned out nice. I’m happy with it.

This is the only glued together structure in my reef. It essentially let me turn some smaller nano sized pieces into a two piece interlocking cave rock.

Here is when I added rock to my scape for more coral space.

 

[RobertK]

I played around with tidal gardens method of gluing rock on some of my scape and I was happy with how it turned out!
I used a medium gel super glue and fine aragonite sand out of the water. Made a very firm bond for me.

Here are some images of my aquascape add on. Think it turned out nice. I’m happy with it.

Very nice! Was that live rock or dry rock you used for that?

 

[logibear]

I started with all live rock and sand from TBS. I just moved stuff around underwater and glued some pieces together but mostly just let the puzzle pieces fit together. Attached are pictures of my scape. Hope that’s helpful.

 

[RobertK]

I started with all live rock and sand from TBS. I just moved stuff around underwater and glued some pieces together but mostly just let the puzzle pieces fit together. Attached are pictures of my scape. Hope that’s helpful.

How are you liking the TBS live sand? Any chance you could post a closeup photo of it? The photo on their website looks like it is pretty dark and has lots of shells in it (which is not the look I'm after) but your sandbed looks very nice in that photo!

Also, how many lbs of live sand in what size tank is that?

 

[Subsea]

As the time draws very close, I’m getting ready to prepare for my live goods this week, I need to know how long or how resilient my live rock is.

How long can I fiddle with it for scaping? Do I need to scape it in water or can I sit and glue them together outside? If so, how long do I have? If I need to scape live rock in the water, what kind of adhesive should I use???


Any help is appreciated!

In 55 years of reefing, I have never glued rock together for several reasons;

Glue/epoxies don’t holdup. Some drill holes, insert dowel pins and then cement. AND THAT IS VERY LABOR INTENSIVE.

Your idea of perfect scape on day 1 may not be the same on day 500.

More important, if rocks are joined together, when you get unwanted pest, the only treatment option is in tank. And that LIMITS eradication protocols.

 

[skey44]

Very nice! Was that live rock or dry rock you used for that?

It was old pacific live rock circa 2009 that had dried out and been in the corner of my yard behind the shed. I did an extensive dark curing process to bring it back to life bacteria wise. But no higher life on it.

 

[Sam7]

Im always moving rocks changing the scape to accomodate....i only epoxy/glue frags to rocks. I like it just stacked in as well and i think it look more natural then all the reefs with the arches everywhere with no where for fish or things to hide and make a home

 

[Reef Jedi]

I too am a die hard stacker. Never used glue in the past 23 years. I aquascaped two orders of TBS rock about a year apart. The initial cycle and a year later when I wanted to add another 60 lbs.

My philosophy is if your buying premium live rock then you want the most living organism’s to survive. So I personally went from shipping bucket to tank and played with the aquascape under water. You’d be amazed how well pieces will fit together and create a solid stack.

Here’s some tank shots after the last 60 lbs went in. I personally wanted a packed tank and by doing that it created a nice looking more natural taller environment with a bunch more hiding spots.

 

[Sam7]

mine can be seen here on my tank thread

Nano Build - Sam7 40 gallon sumpless mixed reef

I started reef keeping in 1986 with under gravel filters and powerheads. Things were simple and a whole lot cheaper. We were pioneers because nobody knew anything and there was nobody to ask. Hello Sam7 Here, My tank is mostly just a simple tank. It doesnt have a sump, just a aquaclear...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[logibear]

How are you liking the TBS live sand? Any chance you could post a closeup photo of it? The photo on their website looks like it is pretty dark and has lots of shells in it (which is not the look I'm after) but your sandbed looks very nice in that photo!

Also, how many lbs of live sand in what size tank is that?

I like my sand a lot. It is definitely not dark. It’s going to throw you off a bit with the shells though because I have added quite a few for my hermits to switch into. I’ll try to get a pic of a good representation tomorrow.

It is a WB 190.5 so 136 gallon display and I got 135 lbs.

 

[breathing underwater]

I had almost always stacked in years past, but on this current build I had a mix of mostly dry rock and some live and wanted to play with more elaborate aquascaping options.

My rocks had all cooked together for a couple months, so well seeded but you could clearly still tell the difference between live and not. I scaped for a couple hours outside with rocks in buckets of saltwater until attached. Glue, dowels (actually threaded nylon rod) and Nyos cement. It was so fun! Definitely would encourage trying a 'new school' aquascaping process if you haven't, just to do something different as I did this time.

Temps were near a hundred so probably worst case. Majority of corraline died off, but plenty left. Tons of pods and life was apparent again within a few weeks. I did spray with saltwater and cover parts with damp paper towels as I went.

After glue but before cement:

Finished scape:

 

[slingfox]

As the time draws very close, I’m getting ready to prepare for my live goods this week, I need to know how long or how resilient my live rock is.

How long can I fiddle with it for scaping? Do I need to scape it in water or can I sit and glue them together outside? If so, how long do I have? If I need to scape live rock in the water, what kind of adhesive should I use???


Any help is appreciated!

Live rock can live hours or days outside of the tank provided it does not get completely dried out (ie, several of the ocean live rock sellers have or still do ship live rock wrapped in paper that is soaked with saltwater).

You can check out My Tank Thread for the 100% live rock aquascape I put together 3 months ago. I also have pictures of the dry rock aquascape it replaced. I mostly used epoxy and super glue with accelerator spray to put the scape together. The scape consists of 3 main structures. Each structure is not one piece but anywhere from 4-8 large pieces stacked or jigsawed together. That way I can disassemble any of the large pieces. Note that some joints I had to redo 4 times or more since the epoxy I used was terrible. I tried expoxy under water in bins but ultimately ended up building the large pieces outside the bins then putting them back into the bins to cure. No rock was outside of water for more than maybe 5-10 minutes max since I build the Lego pieces outside of water then stacked inside temporary holding bins. I needed to use large objects to hold up some pieces of the aquascape while it was curing.

This process took me close to 12 hours over two days. If I had to do it again I could likely do it in less than half the time since there was so much trial and error the first time. First day was taking small to medium sized pieces of live rock and joining them together larger pieces. Then I stacked/jigsawed to create the larger structures. Then I let it sit in two large bins holding overnight. I had to do 2 water changes on the first day since the epoxy and superglue polluted the water significantly. The next day I moved everything into the display tank. During that process the structures change, sometimes significantly. The key step is to make sure you have large pieces you can build your main structures with. If things are modular you can easily adjust the aquascape later.

I hear that Nyos Reef Cement works well on live rock as the final reinforcing bond. You could try that instead of epoxy.

Current aquascape during first day of setup in the display tank. Plenty of swimming space as well as hiding spots for the fish. As the acro grows out it will be a jungle of SPS eventually:

 

[slingfox]

In 55 years of reefing, I have never glued rock together for several reasons;

Glue/epoxies don’t holdup. Some drill holes, insert dowel pins and then cement. AND THAT IS VERY LABOR INTENSIVE.

Your idea of perfect scape on day 1 may not be the same on day 500.

More important, if rocks are joined together, when you get unwanted pest, the only treatment option is in tank. And that LIMITS eradication protocols.

Some of the joints that can be made with superglue, epoxy or reef cement are stronger than the rock itself. If a joint fails that is human error and not the fault of the epoxy or reef cement Inside the tank there aren’t sharks swimming around banging into the rock work after all—if there were then stacking wouldn’t work let alone reef cement.

 

[Frigideus]

I too am a die hard stacker. Never used glue in the past 23 years. I aquascaped two orders of TBS rock about a year apart. The initial cycle and a year later when I wanted to add another 60 lbs.

My philosophy is if your buying premium live rock then you want the most living organism’s to survive. So I personally went from shipping bucket to tank and played with the aquascape under water. You’d be amazed how well pieces will fit together and create a solid stack.

Here’s some tank shots after the last 60 lbs went in. I personally wanted a packed tank and by doing that it created a nice looking more natural taller environment with a bunch more hiding spots.

This is the kind of scape I’m going for, something full and natural with a small amount of negative space for fish to swim. I am aware I can stack, but I live in an area that can be prone to earthquakes, and while the 1000 pounds of water in a box won’t sway or move, the rocks inside might topple over and cause damage. Can I stack and not worry about that, or what can I do?

 

[skey44]

I had almost always stacked in years past, but on this current build I had a mix of mostly dry rock and some live and wanted to play with more elaborate aquascaping options.

My rocks had all cooked together for a couple months, so well seeded but you could clearly still tell the difference between live and not. I scaped for a couple hours outside with rocks in buckets of saltwater until attached. Glue, dowels (actually threaded nylon rod) and Nyos cement. It was so fun! Definitely would encourage trying a 'new school' aquascaping process if you haven't, just to do something different as I did this time.

Temps were near a hundred so probably worst case. Majority of corraline died off, but plenty left. Tons of pods and life was apparent again within a few weeks. I did spray with saltwater and cover parts with damp paper towels as I went.

After glue but before cement:

Finished scape:

Love these scapes, but I’ve labeled myself as an “expert overstocker” so not sure this would work for sleeping/hiding places for my 18 fish. It is beautiful though. Love the concept and how the whole room goes together along with the tank.

 

[littlefoxx]

Thats huge eel what kind is it?

Which one?? Ive got 4