Metropkex/api general cure alternative

MnFish1 · Mar 28, 2025

vetteguy53081 said:
Yes I understand. It so happens the toughest countries for meds are Turkey, Netherlands, Canada and Brasil

I believe the EU has the same rules for all countries

morrisDR · Mar 29, 2025

MnFish1 said:
Your last sentence is not completely correct- It can tell if you have certain types of flukes - but not all flukes. Only Neobenedenia are seen with a fw dip - others require a microscope. And it's not uncommon to require 3 or even 4 praziquantel treatments.

Its hard to make sense why some of the fish have symptom at night - Unless there is a change in oxygen levels.

Can you think of any event that occurred when your tang started having issues (new fish, etc). Also the fact that its eating frozen foods and Nori tend to rule out a mouth issue

Thx for the info. I'm doing one more praziquantal dosage this time I put the wave maker in the same place the yellow tang was swimming so the praziquantal can actually go more through the gills. At the end of the dosage I may try ESHA ndex again because on the package it says redo after two weeks.

Heater, oxygen bubble pump are on the right and a smaller oxygen bubble and wave maker on the right

As for the symptoms the yellow tang first only showed signs at night. Really fast swimming and pooping like it got scared. Mouth flinching etc. I didn't do anything of it untill it stopped eating. It was breathing very heavy at some point staying in a corner where my clownfish are. So they probably got it from him maybe from the poop or just through the gills idk. My purple tang also sometimes has a cloudy eye but it's been months it keeps coming back and disappearing and he's very happily swimming around and not caring about it. There was a point in time where it stopped eating I did praziquantal and it cured within days.

morrisDR · Mar 30, 2025

@Jay Hemdal
@vetteguy53081

Do you know anything about Ergasilus? Maybe this could be the answer??

Jay Hemdal · Mar 30, 2025

morrisDR said:
@Jay Hemdal
@vetteguy53081

Do you know anything about Ergasilus? Maybe this could be the answer??

Ergasilus are usually larger, gill copepod parasites of freshwater fish. There are some species that live in saltwater, but they are mostly found on food fish species being grown in cages.
Copepod parasites in tropical marine aquarium fish are rare, and virtually always seen in new wild caught fish like rays and puffers and doesn’t spread widely to other fish.

vetteguy53081 · Mar 30, 2025

morrisDR said:
@Jay Hemdal
@vetteguy53081

Do you know anything about Ergasilus? Maybe this could be the answer??

Actually not it and thanks to Jay for explanation

morrisDR · Mar 30, 2025

What internal parasites does metroplex treat that praziquantal doesn't?

Malcontent · Mar 30, 2025

morrisDR said:
What internal parasites does metroplex treat that praziquantal doesn't?

Protozoans?

morrisDR · Mar 30, 2025

Malcontent said:
Protozoans?

Can protozoans only be seen from the outside?

morrisDR · Mar 31, 2025

Update he's swimming behavior is a little bit weird he's fins are constantly open maybe u scared it but I'm not sure here a video:

Jay Hemdal · Mar 31, 2025

morrisDR said:
Update he's swimming behavior is a little bit weird he's fins are constantly open maybe u scared it but I'm not sure here a video:

Breathing is good. Erect fins can just be a response to fear/stress.

morrisDR · Mar 31, 2025

Jay Hemdal said:
Breathing is good. Erect fins can just be a response to fear/stress.

Yup breathing is finally normal except when it eats. It used to he very fast now only when eating or when it's choking on flake food...

morrisDR · Apr 12, 2025

Its been 12 days now. The fish is still alive. Sadly still the same symptoms :(.

I have ordered ESHA trimarin and ESHA alx but still in shipping.

The poop of the fish is still brown and healthy looking.

Can anyone make a list of internal parasites or invisible parasites on the body that can cause fish spitting out food?

I will try sera tremazole or Colombo after these two medications...

I'm so done it's been weeks/month now!

Maybe my fish has a broken jaw for all I know

Jay Hemdal · Apr 12, 2025

morrisDR said:
Its been 12 days now. The fish is still alive. Sadly still the same symptoms :(.

I have ordered ESHA trimarin and ESHA alx but still in shipping.

The poop of the fish is still brown and healthy looking.

Can anyone make a list of internal parasites or invisible parasites on the body that can cause fish spitting out food?

I will try sera tremazole or Colombo after these two medications...

I'm so done it's been weeks/month now!

Maybe my fish has a broken jaw for all I know

Fish taking in food, but spitting it out is a frustrating symptom, and I don't know of all the possible causes. Some include; food that is too large or too hard, something stuck in the fish's throat, but then, there are cases where none of those issues seem to be the cause - yet the fish still has that behavior. I'm not sure how internal parasites could cause this, as these parasites are located in the intestines, and are far removed from the feeding action of the fish, so spitting food out wouldn't be expected.

Here is some text I wrote on internal parasites:

A variety of organisms can infect fish internally. Most are worms, a few are protozoans, and there is even an eel that infects the heart of living sharks! Some species have complicated life cycles with intermediate hosts, and others can directly infect fish.

Nematodes can infect the gut of fish, causing very serious infections. In severe infections, they can migrate out of the gut and attack other organs. Tapeworms (cestodes) may also be present but do not reproduce without a second host, so they are rarely a problem. Gut protozoans, such as Hexamita, are normally present in most fish but sometimes cause disease when their populations grow as a result of the fish’s immune response being limited by some stress factor.
Hexamita was once implicated in causing head and lateral line erosion, but its presence in the guts of fish with HLLE was purely coincidental. If non-infected fish had been examined, Hexamita would have been found in them as well.

Sporozoans, such as myxosporidians, can internally infect fish. Myxobolus cerebralis is a parasite of salmonids (salmon and trout) that causes whirling disease. At least two species of myxosporidian fish parasites require a worm as an intermediary host. Henneguya salminicola is another species that infects salmonids. Infected fish have numerous large white cysts (up to 1 cm) in their skeletal muscle. When ruptured, the cysts release a white liquid filled with tiny myxozoan spores (~10 µm). No doubt, these parasites are well-known in salmonids due to their economic impact. It is presumed that other fish have similar myxosporidian infections but are just less studied. There is no treatment for myxosporian infections, but luckily, they are a relatively rare affliction in aquarium fishes.

Microsporidians were once thought to be protozoans but are now considered more closely related to fungi. They are obligatory intracellular parasites, and create lesions called xenomas. One of the more commonly seen, called Glugea, creates white, smooth masses inside and outside of infected fish. Some people may mistake these growths for Cryptocaryon, but any spot that stays in the same position on a fish for more than a few days is not Cryptocaryon. Pseudoloma neurophilia is a common microsporidian pathogen found in zebrafish (Danio rerio) in research facilities. It causes emaciation and skeletal deformities, and thus may be confused with the symptoms of Mycobacterium sp. infections. There is no routine treatment for these diseases but borrowing from a treatment used to control Nosema infections in honeybees, one experimental treatment has been proposed: Fumagillin DCH administered in food, at 0.1 g/kg food at 1.5% body weight daily ration for four weeks. This seemed to prevent mortalities in one report.

One commonly seen microsporidian in tropical freshwater aquariums is “neon tetra disease” Pleistophora hyphessobryconis. Infecting not only neons, but other tetras and cyprinids, it is not directly treatable. Ironically, the similar-looking cardinal tetra, Paracheirodon axelrodi, appears to be mostly immune to this disease. Symptoms vary, but include whitening of the fish’s muscles, especially near the caudal peduncle, as well as white slimy patches on the skin (which can mimic Columnaris disease). Other symptoms can include overall “tattered” look, emaciation and pale coloration. Pleistophora is thought to transfer between fish when dead fish are cannibalized by others. Keeping the aquarium clean and promptly removing any dead fish may help control the spread of this disease.

Heterosporis sp. is another group of microsporidians. They occur within the skeletal muscle cells of fish, where it creates sporophorocysts up to 200 µm in diameter. New spores, 7-10 µm across grow inside vesicles found inside the sporophorocysts. Muscle tissue turns opaque and cloudy in affected fish, sometimes appearing granular. In gamefish, this makes the flesh unappetizing to anglers. This microsporidian group has been isolated from a wide range of freshwater fishes, including many aquarium species; angelfish (Pterophyllum scalare), Betta (Betta splendens), Loricariid catfish and Cichlids. Currently, there is no known treatment, and the level of morbidity seen in various fish is unknown. If a necropsy is not performed, infections will not be identified. Even with a necropsy, focus is generally made on internal organs, skin and gills, so sporophorocysts in the muscles can easily be missed.

Symptoms
Symptoms of internal parasites, like the causative organisms themselves, are varied. The most important visual symptom is emaciation—abnormal thinness of the fish’s belly and the nape (behind the head). If this is present and the fish is feeding well, then internal parasites of the gut may be competing for that food with the fish. Other symptoms include white, stringy feces and bloating of the abdomen.

Diagnosis
Internal parasites are extremely difficult to diagnose visually based on symptoms alone. As with bacterial infections (which are too small to see without high powered microscopes and cellular staining), these internal infections are often attributed to any problem in a fish that involves mucus being excreted with feces. Also, abnormal thinness can often be attributed to the fish not feeding well in the first place—it may be a species that does not feed well on normal aquarium fare and has no internal worms at all.

Looking at a fecal sample under a microscope may help with diagnosis but understand that any fecal matter deposited in an aquarium will become contaminated with all sorts of free-living protozoans and metazoans in a matter of an hour or so. If possible, collect a fish’s feces while it is being held in a clean container.

Treatment options
Wait out “self-limiting” parasites

As alluded to above, many internal parasites require additional hosts to complete their life cycle. In aquariums, these hosts are almost never present, so the disease is considered “self-limiting.” That is, once the adult parasite dies, the fish is free of the disease because no new parasites are being produced. In other
words, the “parasite load” never gets any higher than when the fish arrived in your aquarium. In such cases (like tapeworm infections), it is safest to just wait out the infection.

Some internal parasites have direct development; they do not need a secondary host and may not even need to leave the fish in order to complete their life cycle. These parasites, such as some nematodes, can become very serious infections and must be treated if possible.

morrisDR · Apr 12, 2025

Jay Hemdal said:
Fish taking in food, but spitting it out is a frustrating symptom, and I don't know of all the possible causes. Some include; food that is too large or too hard, something stuck in the fish's throat, but then, there are cases where none of those issues seem to be the cause - yet the fish still has that behavior. I'm not sure how internal parasites could cause this, as these parasites are located in the intestines, and are far removed from the feeding action of the fish, so spitting food out wouldn't be expected.

Here is some text I wrote on internal parasites:

A variety of organisms can infect fish internally. Most are worms, a few are protozoans, and there is even an eel that infects the heart of living sharks! Some species have complicated life cycles with intermediate hosts, and others can directly infect fish.

Nematodes can infect the gut of fish, causing very serious infections. In severe infections, they can migrate out of the gut and attack other organs. Tapeworms (cestodes) may also be present but do not reproduce without a second host, so they are rarely a problem. Gut protozoans, such as Hexamita, are normally present in most fish but sometimes cause disease when their populations grow as a result of the fish’s immune response being limited by some stress factor.
Hexamita was once implicated in causing head and lateral line erosion, but its presence in the guts of fish with HLLE was purely coincidental. If non-infected fish had been examined, Hexamita would have been found in them as well.

Sporozoans, such as myxosporidians, can internally infect fish. Myxobolus cerebralis is a parasite of salmonids (salmon and trout) that causes whirling disease. At least two species of myxosporidian fish parasites require a worm as an intermediary host. Henneguya salminicola is another species that infects salmonids. Infected fish have numerous large white cysts (up to 1 cm) in their skeletal muscle. When ruptured, the cysts release a white liquid filled with tiny myxozoan spores (~10 µm). No doubt, these parasites are well-known in salmonids due to their economic impact. It is presumed that other fish have similar myxosporidian infections but are just less studied. There is no treatment for myxosporian infections, but luckily, they are a relatively rare affliction in aquarium fishes.

Microsporidians were once thought to be protozoans but are now considered more closely related to fungi. They are obligatory intracellular parasites, and create lesions called xenomas. One of the more commonly seen, called Glugea, creates white, smooth masses inside and outside of infected fish. Some people may mistake these growths for Cryptocaryon, but any spot that stays in the same position on a fish for more than a few days is not Cryptocaryon. Pseudoloma neurophilia is a common microsporidian pathogen found in zebrafish (Danio rerio) in research facilities. It causes emaciation and skeletal deformities, and thus may be confused with the symptoms of Mycobacterium sp. infections. There is no routine treatment for these diseases but borrowing from a treatment used to control Nosema infections in honeybees, one experimental treatment has been proposed: Fumagillin DCH administered in food, at 0.1 g/kg food at 1.5% body weight daily ration for four weeks. This seemed to prevent mortalities in one report.

One commonly seen microsporidian in tropical freshwater aquariums is “neon tetra disease” Pleistophora hyphessobryconis. Infecting not only neons, but other tetras and cyprinids, it is not directly treatable. Ironically, the similar-looking cardinal tetra, Paracheirodon axelrodi, appears to be mostly immune to this disease. Symptoms vary, but include whitening of the fish’s muscles, especially near the caudal peduncle, as well as white slimy patches on the skin (which can mimic Columnaris disease). Other symptoms can include overall “tattered” look, emaciation and pale coloration. Pleistophora is thought to transfer between fish when dead fish are cannibalized by others. Keeping the aquarium clean and promptly removing any dead fish may help control the spread of this disease.

Heterosporis sp. is another group of microsporidians. They occur within the skeletal muscle cells of fish, where it creates sporophorocysts up to 200 µm in diameter. New spores, 7-10 µm across grow inside vesicles found inside the sporophorocysts. Muscle tissue turns opaque and cloudy in affected fish, sometimes appearing granular. In gamefish, this makes the flesh unappetizing to anglers. This microsporidian group has been isolated from a wide range of freshwater fishes, including many aquarium species; angelfish (Pterophyllum scalare), Betta (Betta splendens), Loricariid catfish and Cichlids. Currently, there is no known treatment, and the level of morbidity seen in various fish is unknown. If a necropsy is not performed, infections will not be identified. Even with a necropsy, focus is generally made on internal organs, skin and gills, so sporophorocysts in the muscles can easily be missed.

Symptoms
Symptoms of internal parasites, like the causative organisms themselves, are varied. The most important visual symptom is emaciation—abnormal thinness of the fish’s belly and the nape (behind the head). If this is present and the fish is feeding well, then internal parasites of the gut may be competing for that food with the fish. Other symptoms include white, stringy feces and bloating of the abdomen.

Diagnosis
Internal parasites are extremely difficult to diagnose visually based on symptoms alone. As with bacterial infections (which are too small to see without high powered microscopes and cellular staining), these internal infections are often attributed to any problem in a fish that involves mucus being excreted with feces. Also, abnormal thinness can often be attributed to the fish not feeding well in the first place—it may be a species that does not feed well on normal aquarium fare and has no internal worms at all.

Looking at a fecal sample under a microscope may help with diagnosis but understand that any fecal matter deposited in an aquarium will become contaminated with all sorts of free-living protozoans and metazoans in a matter of an hour or so. If possible, collect a fish’s feces while it is being held in a clean container.

Treatment options
Wait out “self-limiting” parasites

As alluded to above, many internal parasites require additional hosts to complete their life cycle. In aquariums, these hosts are almost never present, so the disease is considered “self-limiting.” That is, once the adult parasite dies, the fish is free of the disease because no new parasites are being produced. In other
words, the “parasite load” never gets any higher than when the fish arrived in your aquarium. In such cases (like tapeworm infections), it is safest to just wait out the infection.

Some internal parasites have direct development; they do not need a secondary host and may not even need to leave the fish in order to complete their life cycle. These parasites, such as some nematodes, can become very serious infections and must be treated if possible.

Thank you so much I will look into it!

morrisDR · May 3, 2025

It's been another few weeks and the fish is still alive... Still same signs. I have trippeled the dosage of praziquantal which made it stop eating for a day after the water change it ate nori again.

@vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal

Im convinced that the parasite is probably long gone because he's breathing normal.

Im going to put it in my sump I after a few days.

I have two ideas what may cause the stop in eating flake food.

- the medicines cause the fish to not like some foods and he should be in a medicine free tank

- the fish has lost its tongue and that's why it can only eat nori because it only eats the nori when it's wet enough and easy to chew.

vetteguy53081 · May 3, 2025

morrisDR said:
It's been another few weeks and the fish is still alive... Still same signs. I have trippeled the dosage of praziquantal which made it stop eating for a day after the water change it ate nori again.

@vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal

Im convinced that the parasite is probably long gone because he's breathing normal.

Im going to put it in my sump I after a few days.

I have two ideas what may cause the stop in eating flake food.

- the medicines cause the fish to not like some foods and he should be in a medicine free tank

- the fish has lost its tongue and that's why it can only eat nori because it only eats the nori when it's wet enough and easy to chew.

May have had gill damage and also tripling the prazi dosage may have caused impact on feeding as prazi has a glycol solution within. Glad to hear of improvement and try soft, easy to swallow foods such as Brine shrimp, mysis shrimp and even flakes

Jay Hemdal · May 3, 2025

morrisDR said:
It's been another few weeks and the fish is still alive... Still same signs. I have trippeled the dosage of praziquantal which made it stop eating for a day after the water change it ate nori again.

@vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal

Im convinced that the parasite is probably long gone because he's breathing normal.

Im going to put it in my sump I after a few days.

I have two ideas what may cause the stop in eating flake food.

- the medicines cause the fish to not like some foods and he should be in a medicine free tank

- the fish has lost its tongue and that's why it can only eat nori because it only eats the nori when it's wet enough and easy to chew.

Yes - there could be a mechanical reason for fish taking in food, but spitting it out. One common cause is an obstruction. No way to treat that though. Very often, when there is an obstruction though, the fish sort of "gives up" and stops trying to feed at all. Since your fish is still eating nori, that seems less likely to me.

Do you have access to other types of algae? Some stores sell live algae. There are also the Two Little Fishies" brands of Sea Veggies dried algae that are more nutritious than regular roasted nori sheets. Finally, have you tried gel foods that have a similar consistency to nori, but are higher in protein? Repashy or Omega 1 are two types here in the US. I use Mazuri gel diet, but that is more for public aquariums, I'm not sure they sell smaller amounts.