Abnormally fast cycle?

[notMrDurden]

First off, the title is misleading... I have no idea what is and isn't abnormal .

I just filled and started my cycle last night. At 9pm, In my 16 gallon cube I put 4oz of FritzZyme Turbo Start 900 then brought my tank up to 2.0ppm of ammonia. This morning before I left for work at 4:30 am, I tested and my ammonia is down to 1.0ppm. I know I need to let it run a few days anyways, but is it normal that I could have cycled that fast? (I know it isn't technically cycled, but it is on track to hit the 2 to 0 in 24 hours well before 24 hours)



I knew with the guidance I was given, it was supposed to take a week or two, but dang!



As of now, my plan is still to monitor for a few days and continue to establish my cycle and work out the kinks... For example, I didn't realize my heater wasn't plugged in until this morning.

Also, don't know if it's important, but they always asked in freshwater groups: I am using an API Saltwater Master Test Kit

 

[Uriken]

Were you using any seasoned live rock or bio media from another tank? As you may have read, of the various test kit brands API isn't exactly accurate. For ammonia I would say don't count on API. I found for API, the PH and KH test kits are ok yet the other variables that need tested I would go with other brands (Red Sea / Fluval / Salifert). With the ammonia registering your cycle is now started yet the course to establishment will for sure take a good week at a "minimum" even with adding established bacteria. When the Ammonia AND Nitrate are on a downward trend than the light at the end of the cycle is near. I would probably not test for a few days and just let the tank run now that you know the cycle is started.

 

[notMrDurden]

Were you using any seasoned live rock or bio media from another tank? As you may have read, of the various test kit brands API isn't exactly accurate. For ammonia I would say don't count on API. I found for API, the PH and KH test kits are ok yet the other variables that need tested I would go with other brands (Red Sea / Fluval / Salifert). With the ammonia registering your cycle is now started yet the course to establishment will for sure take a good week at a "minimum" even with adding established bacteria. When the Ammonia AND Nitrate are on a downward trend than the light at the end of the cycle is near. I would probably not test for a few days and just let the tank run now that you know the cycle is started.

Yeah, I just read the pinned tank set up post, and caught the Nitrate part. I probably made this post a bit premature.

As far as live rock/seasoned media, I did not use it.

And I will do some more research on the tests! Thank you so much for your input. I have a feeling I'll be getting the same answers throughout the day

 

[brandon429]

Fritz is designed to work out of the bottle your cycle can carry life now as the bac float in water. In three more days the bacteria transition from suspension work into locked on surfaces and no degree of water changes will unseat them. Either way you slice it, waiting longer can't make your tank safer to carry fish than it is now, an actual disease prep plan from the fish disease forum is what protects your fish.

Bottle bac cycles don't require testing or thought or careful coaxing, they're dump and go.

It's not that fritz handled some of your ammonia and that some is left unoxidized, it's that the cheap tests you're using can't measure like a digital device to show you all that test load ammonia is gone. Waiting sixteen more weeks doesn't get you any more ready than right now for ammonia control. Specific disease plan is what gets you ready, those come from the stickies in the disease forum

 

[notMrDurden]

Gotcha. Not sure which to go with. Either way, I can't make it out to the store until Saturday at the earliest. I'll just continue to monitor for a few days (keeping them fed) and go from there.

 

[notMrDurden]

Were you using any seasoned live rock or bio media from another tank? As you may have read, of the various test kit brands API isn't exactly accurate. For ammonia I would say don't count on API. I found for API, the PH and KH test kits are ok yet the other variables that need tested I would go with other brands (Red Sea / Fluval / Salifert). With the ammonia registering your cycle is now started yet the course to establishment will for sure take a good week at a "minimum" even with adding established bacteria. When the Ammonia AND Nitrate are on a downward trend than the light at the end of the cycle is near. I would probably not test for a few days and just let the tank run now that you know the cycle is started.

Any particular test kit YOU swear by? I see the suggestions, but unsure if those are best for all around testing or if it will be one is good for some while another is good for the rest.

 

[brandon429]

You don't need to test for ammonia here, the bottle worked. Focus on disease preps only


Every post of a fish- in cycle with fritz turns out the same, which is fine.

You don't need ammonia or nitrite testing here, bottle bac is skip cycle as you can see it works instantly

The bioload we carry is no where near as much loading as was cleared first day. Make all future stocking choices center around the fish disease prevention protocol selected
If one hasn't been selected, see stickies in fish disease forum its a matter of fallow and quarantine we see there

 

[notMrDurden]

You don't need to test for ammonia here, the bottle worked. Focus on disease preps only


Every post of a fish- in cycle with fritz turns out the same, which is fine.

You don't need ammonia or nitrite testing here, bottle bac is skip cycle as you can see it works instantly

The bioload we carry is no where near as much loading as was cleared first day. Make all future stocking choices center around the fish disease prevention protocol selected
If one hasn't been selected, see stickies in fish disease forum its a matter of fallow and quarantine we see there

Loud and clear. Didn't mean to make that seem frustrating. I'll jump on over work on disease prep. Much appreciated!

 

[Uriken]

You know. I been in this hobby over 26 years steady. It is sad how new reefers get mislead with information. To tell someone your cycle is over because of some bottled whatever is wrong. Next thing you know there is fish swimming in ammonia and because of the lack of patients more and more problems arise. Nothing is fast in the hobby. If a 16 dollar bottle of whatever was the key to an instant tank than they need to change the title to "InstaCycle for Dummies".

 

[saltyfins]

mine did that. 24 hrs flat. Of course, in my 32 I had 17 lbs of live cycled rock, and I also used the turbo start. I also filled it from my MD, from a water change, and used media from it as well.

 

[brandon429]

@Uriken

I understand your concern its legit.

Consider the degree of cycles addressed here though, we're special cycle umpires in this thread

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

non digital ammonia test kit readings (api, Red Sea, nyos, seachem badges) make you think you aren’t cycled when indeed you are if you owned a $200 expensive seneye meter, you’d never be doubting your cycle status. since .01% of the reefing population owns these, we need a way to help the...

www.reef2reef.com

That is a handy work thread for tracking cycle outcomes. Look for instances of failed cycles, we do all types there.

There were no losses, no ammonia crashes where bottle bac goes we show.

 

[brandon429]

I’ve truly never seen a single failed bottle bac cycle in the history of my time online in reefing. Not one where fish die due to ammonia, I can’t find even one example on a seneye tracked cycle. I’ve seen examples of bad acclimation, floating shipping bags opened for an hour before adding fish then they die, but that doesn’t mean every instance of early fish loss is ammonia noncontrol in the display.



there are zero failed display cycles on seneye I’ve seen, and have been searching a while now. Find one and post it pls, if we can find one example. Estimated # of seneye logged cycles? 1000 or more now, they’re popular. Check the data mining, cycles don’t fail.

Ive seen people take an api or Red Sea reading, report the nh4 value vs the nh3 / nh3 is all reefing cares about / and from that nh4 report someone told them their cycle was stuck or incomplete.

That’s not the case though, it wasn’t stuck or incomplete. Digital testing shows bottle bac of this brand as #1 fastest across the board, that too was factored in his quick start date above.


I know Dan has seen dead bottle bac occasionally in lab testing so the risk isn’t zero percent and that justifies the concern. The incidence is so low however that in all cycling threads I’ve ever seen on this board since joining a dead bottle never harmed any cycle date we assigned, all logged cycles completed on time.

Disease compromises 99% of all initial fish loss per my findings (based on tank age when fish start dying, it’s not day one) so we aim all concerns at where the losses exist: needs fallow and prep quarantine before adding fish. Decent acclimation as well, many searches show that floating an opened shipping bag for hours is asking for ammonia concerns: inside the bag.

a direct case study:

My yello belly hippo tang laying on its side and breathing heavy there is no sign of parasites

My tang swims around occasionally he's eating every time I feed him and occasionally grazes on algae in the tank but now he's laying on his side and breathing heavily there's no sign of parasites or him getting beaten up

www.reef2reef.com

delayed fish loss within eight months = skip fallow and qt. This stuff happens with a high degree of predictability nowadays, cycling + disease expression.


*don’t think for one second that waiting 30+ days for perfect cycling parameters gets lesser disease loss. It gets the same as speed cycles, see the disease forum. The majority of ALL daily help threads in the disease forums completed a proven safe cycle with zero ammonia, zero nitrite testing before proceeding. They’re still needing disease help in droves.


specific disease preps are what we do after demonstrable ammonia control. The drop down was signal your bottle was live; we don’t require api to say zero it hardly ever will even on full running reefs, see any API ammonia .25 poll

 

[mbarton2010]

You know. I been in this hobby over 26 years steady. It is sad how new reefers get mislead with information. To tell someone your cycle is over because of some bottled whatever is wrong. Next thing you know there is fish swimming in ammonia and because of the lack of patients more and more problems arise. Nothing is fast in the hobby. If a 16 dollar bottle of whatever was the key to an instant tank than they need to change the title to "InstaCycle for Dummies".

 

[Cell]

When Fritzyme and my favorite, Bio-Spira can work basically overnight, I don't understand why Dr. Tim's has to be so complex in comparison.

 

[Cell]

Also...

 

[Uriken]

Maybe one day you will figure out they got you with the snake oils. A little patients and you spend ZERO money!

 

[notMrDurden]

So after actually looking into it and doing a bit it research, it's looking like the two schools of thought here are both partially right.

Reputable bacteria in a bottle can be used and will cycle quickly. I had nitrates and nitrites rise, peak, and fell inside of a week. That doesn't mean I don't need to do tests and monitor my water quality. Furthermore, for someone new to the hobby, I don't think it's ever a good idea to tell them to not test. I know you don't want to get into the habit of chasing numbers, but seeing things move can be a huge learning experience.

Just my two cents on the matter.

 

[brandon429]

I'm highly curious to know what links you read that leads you to that final takeaway, as it's opposite of the huge no test threads you're given above.

Show a time where fritz didn't work.


Those are years of cycle assessment in one thread above, 31 pages with clear start dates assigned in every job.

There isn't really a question to the matter we show, it's simple, you're done cycling because you poured from a bottle into your tank/ easy/ no thought required.

 

[Duncan62]

So after actually looking into it and doing a bit it research, it's looking like the two schools of thought here are both partially right.

Reputable bacteria in a bottle can be used and will cycle quickly. I had nitrates and nitrites rise, peak, and fell inside of a week. That doesn't mean I don't need to do tests and monitor my water quality. Furthermore, for someone new to the hobby, I don't think it's ever a good idea to tell them to not test. I know you don't want to get into the habit of chasing numbers, but seeing things move can be a huge learning experience.

Just my two cents on the matter.

Go buy a good book and read it. There is good accurate info here but it's hard for a beginner to pick from do many different opinions. You will learn the basics without confusion or condescension from people who don't agree. I've learned a great deal here and my first reef was in 76 but it's like salad dress in the store. There's 50 brands of French dressing. They're all ok bit how do you pick. Good book for basics and this place will help after you've decided on your own methods. Good luck. I'm sure your tank will do well!

 

[notMrDurden]

I'm highly curious to know what links you read that leads you to that final takeaway, as it's opposite of the huge no test threads you're given above.

Show a time where fritz didn't work.


Those are years of cycle assessment in one thread above, 31 pages with clear start dates assigned in every job.

There isn't really a question to the matter we show, it's simple, you're done cycling because you poured from a bottle into your tank/ easy/ no thought required.

You're really stuck on that "don't test it" thought process, huh? Interesting that that would be your response. So I should just trust that everything works instead of watching it work and actually learning about it. Neat. You're clearly missing the point of my last post that basically said you were correct with almost everything except it IS a good idea to test.

Seriously, in a world of "what are your values" why do you make it seem like it's a bad idea to test? Genuinely curious on that one.

Go buy a good book and read it. There is good accurate info here but it's hard for a beginner to pick from do many different opinions. You will learn the basics without confusion or condescension from people who don't agree. I've learned a great deal here and my first reef was in 76 but it's like salad dress in the store. There's 50 brands of French dressing. They're all ok bit how do you pick. Good book for basics and this place will help after you've decided on your own methods. Good luck. I'm sure your tank will do well!

I'm just trying to figure out why it's a bad idea to test, that's all.